[Senko]

Run smoke and mirrors when the device is wired in no noise penalty with full sleeze bonus.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Not the case with Smoke and Mirrors, Xenon. The program specifically states that the noise penalty only applies to actions taken with the deck. This means it does not apply like noise in general.

[Xenon]

My post was more about noise in general; That since commlinks don't have a wireless bonus they don't really get affected. At least not as long as you don't end up in a matrix dead zone.

The only real effect noise have on a commlink is that personas based on it will get a negative dice pool modifier on matrix related tasks (such as remote controlling your car, searching the matrix for information, spotting a silent running icon that is attacking a device in your PAN etc.)

[Rooks]

So could you please explain in your own words how the EvoTech Himitsu has a sleaze 5 stealth module integrated into the commlink....

It's an example of a non-standard form factor. They do all kinds of stuff you can't build yourself (because the build and repair rules of data trails are not detailed enough). You can't build a device rating 2 commlink with 7 firewall for just 2000, either. Shrug.

So this non-standard form factor comes with a module already hardwired into the board (so you cannot modify it to add another hardwired module).
From the looks of it it this module sacrifice half your data processing rating to gain 5 sleaze rating.
It seem to add +4 to the availability code (or maybe double the availability code) of the commlink. A commlink with this module become restricted.
It also seem to cost you about 10,300 ¥ extra.

except no where does it say in the description explicitly that the "stealth module" takes up the modification "slot" of the device, 

Players are probably not supposed to build non-standard form factor commlinks. GMs are.

Except that kinda flies in the face of every shadowrun edition where your supposed to make cyberdecks customizable based on the users taste heck even RCCs has an example of scratch built RCC

[Xenon]

1) I simply think it is unfortunate that they used the word module instead of the key word cyberdeck module in almost 20 locations in the same chapter. This make the book ambiguous when they suddenly talk about a module in a place where they might or might not intend it to be a cyberdeck module.



2) I am well aware that you could build a cyberdeck from the ground up in 2nd ed. But in SR5 there are simply no rules for players to build a form factor commlink or cyberdeck. If you think that flies in the face of every other edition, take it up with the author. 

[Elo_Ion]

Hmmm. Maybe a hack of smoke and mirrors can be written. As deckers call themselves hackers.

Lots of ways to go and even the old 4th edition programmimg tests can be used as programs had ratings back then....
rating can be applied to the penalty reduction....
Imagine having to go into the foundation to keep a program updated? Or somthing as difficult?
 It would be worth the hassle.......

[Hobbes]

If the noise generated is higher than the device rating, the device temporary loses any wireless bonus.

A commlink often have rather high device rating.
A commlink normally don't have a wireless bonus.

Is that before or after any Noise reduction?  Most starter decks are rating 3, does that cap Smoke and Mirrors at 3, or do you get to add in Noise reduction from Data Jack, Signal Scrubber, whatever, and run Smoke and Mirrors at +5 Sleaze? 

[yaminsoul]

Um I hate to bring up an inconvenient point about program carrier and com links but it does say under program carrier you can run any program your "deck" can run..since your comm is not a deck, should you be even able to use program carrier, since coms can't normally take programs?

I do agree for a normal deck, smoke and mirrors is broken with noise reduction, especially with the new anatennas

[Rooks]

Um I hate to bring up an inconvenient point about program carrier and com links but it does say under program carrier you can run any program your "deck" can run..since your comm is not a deck, should you be even able to use program carrier, since coms can't normally take programs?

I do agree for a normal deck, smoke and mirrors is broken with noise reduction, especially with the new anatennas

Ya but then you can run an agent on a commlink? but agents take up a program "slot" on your cyberdeck but commlinks dont have program slots but are able to run agents on them?

[Jack_Spade]

Specific trumps general rules:
Normaly you can't run cyberprograms on coms, but with the module mod you can.
That wasn't to hard, was it? 

[gilga]

I'd rule that commlinks wireless bonus is the ability to send and recieve calls. Because there is no way to do that not connected to the matrix so if you smoke and mirror your comlink too much it is no longer a comlink. Just a little computer with music and a calendar and stuff.

[Rooks]

so a smart phone without a calling plan?

[Xenon]

Or you could rule that it Increases the cyberdeck's Sleaze attribute between 1 and 5 (user’s choice) for matrix actions performed with the deck with an equivalent amount of noise added to matrix actions performed with the deck. The noise also affects Trace Icon tests performed against the deck using the program.

(no benefit against matrix perception while running silent and no double dip against trace icon).

[Top Dog]

The more I think about it the more that interpretation makes sense. Although it's still stupidly worded in a way that supports (or well, opposes, actually) both interpretations.

[yaminsoul]

Or, you know, you could just reword it so its actually balanced, especially with the new Anatenna's from Chrome Flesh. How about this:

1) This program gives you +2 to the sleaze attribute for the purpose of opposed matrix perception tests and against trace icon attempts.

No idiocy about +5 sleaze, all the time, with no real consequences with noise reduction cheap and easy.  Just something that is perfectly inline with EVERY other program, either +1 straight or +2 to something more specialized.

As it is,Smoke and Mirrors is completely overpowered compare to every other program.