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Technomancer feedback for a new book!

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Triskavanski:

--- Quote ---Something needs to be done to improve techno viability at creation. As it stands now the only techno build that is viable is the Sprite Summoner build.
--- End quote ---

Oh right, I've had some thought in that myself.

Its one of the things I've wondered.. Why do Technomancers start off with 5 CFs, and Mages start off with 10 spells? Why do Technomancers get points into two skills within only one group While mages have three different groups they can get?

Some of the things I've been thinking of with the houserules, is setting it up that you can put those free points TMs get in Cracking, Computers or Resonance skills.

Also, Why TMs don't need to have all the CFs mages do in spells, Perhaps, not losing 3 of them if you go from A to B would be nice?

DeathStrobe:
Mesh Reality! By default! For everyone!

So in SR4 Mesh Reality allowed TMs and technocritters to have access to their physical initiative and virtual initiative at the same time. But they can't have more physical passes then they have, and would have to use the rest of their passes on VR actions. To explain these rules with the current initiative will be very tricky. Basicly, a character will need to roll twice, once to find their VR init and again to find their physical init. Then see how many passes they can have for each.

Now the reason I think everyone should have Mesh Reality, including deckers and all characters really, is to make Matrix actions a bit easier to blend with the meat game. This way everyone can run down a hall while being chased by HTR, and the hacker and hack doors or other security devices and run at the same time. But if you only give it to TMs...I guess i'd be okay with that...

So one of the big problems with TMs right now is their sleaze. Its based off of int, and int can only go up to 6, 7 with exceptional attribute, and higher with some cheese from surge and metavariants, which I wouldn't recommend. I think that's a bit of a problem considering that sleaze is used to defend against Matrix Perception. Its not very difficult for a decker to get sleaze up to 8 at chargen, and now with Data Trails up to 9 without too much trouble.

Nuyen sinks. TMs need more ways to burn money to progress. The awaken, who are also karma heavy archetypes, have foci and reagents to burn nuyen on. Deckers and Riggers are heavy nuyen sinks. And Street Sams seem to have a pretty good mix with ware and skills to burn karma on. Unless a TM goes rigging, they don't have anything worth wild to spend their nuyen on, unless they want to cyber up, which leads to resonance problems.

Fix submergence cost, this will hopefully be done with errata to core.

More sprite powers! Sprites are awesome because they give a lot more tricks for TMs, but spirits have EVEN MORE TRICKS and on top of that can fight in the meat world while being immune to weapons. These things are clearly not equal. Its hard for people to attack sprites, but they can become totally immune to them by turning off wireless.

Can we have different categories for complex forms which TMs can specialize in. Kind of like how mages can specialize in combat spells, which affects all combat spells. Right now, TMs have to specialize in ONE complex form. Seems pretty unfair.

Can we maybe used physical attributes in place of mental to calculate the living persona. Or possibly make it easier to raise mental attributes. Or make it so there is less of a reason for TMs to need to max out mental attributes at chargen. Being able to use physical attributes might help make orks and trolls more viable as TMs. As opposed to where they are now, which is terrible. The way it is now also makes elves too damn strong for Matrix attack actions.

Less skills! TMs need like 9 skills. That's insane, and makes it hard for them to branch out. So either make those 9 skills do all the most amazing things, or somehow allow them to not need 9 skills to do their job.

Tools to help TMs get into hosts at chargen. Maybe a complex form or something.

I actually don't think fading is that bad. TMs have no cap on resonance, so at some point, they'll get it so high that fading becomes trivial.

Paragons and Streams, of course.

Ally Sprites? Sprite packs? Other ideas totally stolen from magic.

Clearly MCT made cyborg TMs without affecting their resonance. Rules to make those would be awesome.

Sustaining focus. I guess sprites can handle it...but having something that works like a focus might be nice.

Latent Technomancy. I realize that all the Latent qualities were chargen traps in SR4, but I did have a player that took it.

PANs. Though, I'm not sure about that, I think Data Trails might have solved this problem with the sleaze dongle for commlinks. Hell, I could infuse that and get sleaze up to 10.

TM Priority is all jacked up. At priority A Resonance is something like 80-ish karma while for mages it's over 100. This discrepancy is very problematic when you consider how much stronger mages are.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I might add more later.

ZeldaBravo:
Hello Amy! Glad you are so interested in feedback. I wanna share some thoughts too.
The biggest problem with technomancers is that currently they require a HUGE amount of resources to build and even then they still are not that good. I mean, any other archetype can effectively contribute to the Run in multiple ways, and Technos are limited to Matrix. Technomancers are so multiple attributes dependant and multiple skills dependant that they cannot afford to spend their valuable build points on anything other than their Living Persona and Matrix&Resonance skills. That means Technomancer characters and players don't have a lot to do in the game. Shadowrunners tend to be specialists but Technomancers are kinda one trick ponies. Seriously, technomancers can do like ONE thing now: they can hack things. Yeah they have Sprites and some unique abilities and mechanics but they still can only do one thing. Being unique doesn't make you more useful or fun if you just sit around and don't participate in the gameplay, and when you do participate the other players don't because you're in the Matrix.
Honestly I don't know how to fix it without breaking everything. Technos are 'high cost - mediocre reward' so maybe lower the cost? They don't need to be more powerful in Matrix. Different rules for Living Persona stats? Change Resonance priority selection to BCD (similar to what adepts and aspected magicians have)? Maybe make Resonance attribute unaffected by essence loss to cyberware? Or maybe you could make technomancers less skill dependant by letting them use their resonance skills instead of their matrix skills for some occasions?
TL;DR technomancers should need less resources to build so they could afford to interact with the meat world more.

TheDai:
Good Morning everyone,

well ... I am not nearly as experienced than others who posted here ... but ... the general theme here seems to be "Please ! Fix Technomancers!" (and I'm totally on board with that)

But for many things, it is already too late. Skinlink Echo isn't going away, Core Fade Values aren't going away, and I do not think the priority table will be updated in favor of Technomancers.

What I would like to see:
Sprites - Sprites everywhere ! And when all of the pages are filled with nothing but sprites, add some more ! And perhaps equivalent Positive / Negative Qualities the Mages have.
Perhaps Sprites could have Programs, like spirits have additional Powers. Or they have additional powers. That would also work I guess.

Something like a Focus -  When it comes to Complex Forms, when going ALL IN at Character Creation a person can end up with about 12 Dice for Fading (Res 6; Will 6). Since there is no real reason to cast a complex Form below Force 4 (because Force is your Limit and you always go against 2 Enemy Attributes) there is practically no chance to not get out with no damage to yourself. If one, for some reason, starts with Resonance 3 or 4 and if you went completely insane with the thought that Logic might be more important than Willpower and also have that only at 4 or 5, there is practically no use for complex Forms whatsoever, if you don't blow edge on them. A Focus for increased Limit on CF's or reduced fading, or increased dice Pool for Fading Damage would be very helpful. Or -any- other way to reduce the Damage to your own Face when you try something, that isn't just copying what a Decker would do.

Paragons and Streams for obvious reasons.

Something that lets me use Smartguns without the Smartlink upgrade in Eyes, Contacts, Glasses. (Just a personal preference, as I always just "see" the AR, my character refuses to put anything over his eyes that would bloat his vision even more. Think of it ... ARO's from the device overlaying what you would normally see, and changing everything all the time on two different "devices". Must be a chore and must feel really weird as a character)

In the end, the TM's are separated into some Archetypes:
Zoomancer - With an Army of Sprites he brings down his foes. His own Matrix Abilities are rather weak but the two fault Sprites on his Sides are a force to reckon with.
Hackermancer - He is a Decker, without a Cyberdeck. If necessary, he sacrifices his resonance for Cyber/Bioware (like cerebral booster) and only uses his awakened abilities to improve his hacking skills even more or in extreme dire situations. (The most and easiest way to play - but a mundane Decker is just plain better here)
Dronomancer - Doing everything a Rigger does, but it costs him 40 Karma instead of 100.000NY, and he may or may not get a cable with it (RAW) depending which book you hold in your hands.

Which is basically ... Conjurer, Combat Mage and Alchemist.

Why not Adeptomancer ? - Not only his Brain can emulate machines, but his Body as well. Buffing himself with the Powers of Cyberware, without having any.

The Problem is: Zoomancer burns through his Sprite like a crazy Person and needs heavy investment in Both Skills and Attributes while they can't do much more than what you would do on your own.
Hacknomancer has no versatility as he cannot reconfigure, has only access to programs after investing a heavy amount of Karma in submersion, needs very high mental attributes as well as very high skill levels. This will get a character so heavily Karma starved, that it seems he runs through a desert all his life.
Dronomancer: Cannot be played without your first submersion. And even then it is a little weird.

These should have new merits for themselves. So far everyone tries to get a mix between Hacking and Sprites and has the Feeling, that a mundane decker with a few Agents would do the same but probably better in most cases. This isn't a good feeling. :/

Good Luck, Yue !
We all depend on you.

Regards,
TheDai

Sterling:
I guess I'm a little different in that I would like to see a little more fluff in the book showing some of the ways that Technomancers are not just Deckers without 'decks.

A lot of the complaints I read seem to boil down to "Why can't my Technomancer do everything the Decker can?" (The obvious answer would appear to be "Because then he'd be a Decker".)

Most players can easily grasp the difference between a Street Sam and a Physical Adept, but there is more confusion over the difference between a Decker and a Technomancer, and I believe that a Technomancer e-book would be the perfect place to show that difference, rather than lumping them both together under "Hackers".

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