[Critias]

They're arrogant, condescending, and manipulative dick bags if you ask me.

So are the Immortal Elves. 

And hell, so are most politicians.

You know what?  Lets just amend that to "So are most people, if given the opportunity".

Bull

And Immortal Elves and Great Dragons don't wait to be given the opportunity, they take it. 

[FastJack]

Don't forget AIs, Great Spirits, Horrors, etc.

[Rascal]

I´m quite fond of those overmighty beings, they add another dimension of power behind the people usually paying runners to do their dirty work.
And especially the Great Dragons are part of what makes Shadowrun so immensly interresting and dynamic, without them we could all go play Cyberpunk (or the nice swedish game NeoTech) instead. And Ghostwalker is a bit of a favorite after the Denver Missions (my team got to fuck with a dragon and live to brag about it). But most of the time it´s enough just knowing they are there, watching with lizard eyes gleaming...

[Semerkhet]

My problem with Ghostwalker was never that he was a supreme badass, or that he came out of an astral rift and reformed his physical body, or even that he showed up in Denver and went on a rampage against the Aztlan sector.  My problem was that after his rampage he told the representatives of every significant nation in North America that he was taking over their carefully negotiated treaty city and they can either go along or else.  Thing is, "or else" was never specified.  I just can't believe that even a being so individually powerful as a Great Dragon can stand up against the ire and military might of a half-dozen moderate to major national powers.  Maybe he could have gotten away with it initially, but only for about as long as it took the treaty nations to mobilize their military.  I'm not even saying for sure that military power could have killed Ghostwalker; he'd surely flee if faced with overwhelming force.   I just don't think he would have been able to hold on to his newly claimed territory.

Now if Ghostwalker had taken over, oh I don't know, say Yellowstone or some mystically significant section of the Rocky Mountains, then I can believe it because those places wouldn't be a diplomatically sensitive, militarily important, major population center controlled by several nations.  There would be no compelling reason to take it back from him.

[FastJack]

Really? And how many Great Dragons have been killed by the combined might of Corporations/Governments since they appeared on the scene?

Let's look at it this way. Great Dragons perceive themselves as being "above" all the lesser races. If, by chance, the five governments involved in the Treaty could agree long enough to send a coordinated attack against Ghostwalker and succeed, how long would those governments last when all the other Great Dragons set aside their differences to start a protracted war with those nations? And remember, one of those dragons has the richest corporation in the world in his grasp, including a great portion of the defense contracts of all those governments (so he knows how most of the gear functions on the enemies side...)

So, you're the President of the UCAS. You don't like the NAN or CAS because they deserted you and Aztlan are just Aztlan. There's whispers that you could take out Ghostwalker if you all got together, but nobody wants to take the lead in case it doesn't work. And your advisors warn you that if it does work, Lofwyr and company may just take it as a personal offense that you killed their cousin. Sure, you got lucky killing one Great Dragon. But you think you're armed forces are going to stand up to 20?

[The_Gun_Nut]

The thing is, for every group he cheesed off, he made two or three others some very lucrative deals.  The net gain of which was that everyone who mattered in the area decided to let things slide.  Figure in the fact that anyone who offs a great dragon gets a ton of other great dragons anxious to get revenge (to let folks know that this will NOT be tolerated), and revenge against a great starts looking like a bad idea.

Plus, military might or no, Ghostwalker AKA Dollmaker AKA Icewing would glass a few thousand square miles of sprawl/terrain before he went down, and even a Thor shot might only piss him off.  Back in the day, the Therans AKA Atlantis tossed the equivalent of three armored divisions/WMD's at him.  Notably, this was the only time in recorded history that the Therans ever LOST one of their behemoths.  He then snuck into the Theran capital city and murdered a dozen of the most important people in the empire a week for at least two weeks before the Therans called for a cease fire.  During the down cycle of magic, Ghostwalker was the only great still active and travelling the metaplanes discovering new arcane knowledge and techniques.

There's a reason the entire council of great dragons backed away from him and Lofwyr twisted his challenge to combat to a challenge between cat's paws.  No one wants to go toe to toe with Icewing.

As for renegotiation, recent events and new information probably made it advantageous.  Or he may have plans for the region.

[Kot]

Nut is right, as Ghostwalker was the most powerful dragon back in the Earthdawn times. Especially with magic - that was his thing. I'm wondering, why did he oversleep? Maybe Big D pulled a prank on him?

As for the Behemoth thin, that was not Icewing, i think. Wasn't that his mate? I don't really remember.
Wait. No, that was not him. Especially since when Therans came to 'teach him a lesson', they only found an empty lair.

[Semerkhet]

Really? And how many Great Dragons have been killed by the combined might of Corporations/Governments since they appeared on the scene?

I don't have the references handy, but I could swear at least one Great was taken out by military action and another in a duel with Lofwyr(?)  

Also, if you question the ability of the Treaty nations to make a united response to a serious infringement of their territory then I also question the ability of the Great Dragons (amazingly fractious group, if SotF is to be believed) to unite in retaliation.

I admitted earlier that Ghostwalker was perhaps not actually killed in the orbital bombardment but was kicked out of Denver at the minimum.  I leave open in my version of the setting the possibility of GW coming back into power and influence via a less blatantly Godzilla method.

Bottom line is that I liked Denver just fine without Ghostwalker and since I failed to make that decision before I started my game last year I decided to take action post factum, as opposed to my a priori action deleting SURGE and Changelings from ever having happened in my setting.

[Rascal]

Concerning Ghostwalkers place in Denver, I kinda wonder if he stays in power because he actually makes things work? Everyone can have a piece of the cake as long as they don´t mind the occasional white dragonscale on top of it..? But if one want´s him out of a campaign, perhaps pressure from other dragons would be a way to force him to give up his domain..?
From what I know of the story (not that much, admittedly) Denver was pretty fucked up and chaotic in general before our Great White showed up and made people walk in line (and kicked those troublesome Aztlanites out on their butts).

(But my group take care to keep Changelings out of the picture as well, we just never found furries a part of the setting...)

[Dead Monky]

And to think, I just gloss over dragons because I find them cheesy and cliche.  Heh.

[FastJack]

Really? And how many Great Dragons have been killed by the combined might of Corporations/Governments since they appeared on the scene?

I don't have the references handy, but I could swear at least one Great was taken out by military action and another in a duel with Lofwyr(?)

Alamais was supposedly killed by a barrage of laser fire (2050's) when der Nachtmachen was destroyed. He then fought with his brother Lofwyr and was thought to be killed (2060), but, per Dunkelzahn's will, it turns out he was still alive (since they traded fruitcakes every Christmas).

Kaltenstein was killed in 2012 by Lofwyr and Nebelherr.

Feuerschwinge was near the Cattenom meltdown in the early days and was brought down over the SOX by German attack copters and has been declared dead by the German government even though no body was ever recovered.

Also, if you question the ability of the Treaty nations to make a united response to a serious infringement of their territory then I also question the ability of the Great Dragons (amazingly fractious group, if SotF is to be believed) to unite in retaliation.

I admitted earlier that Ghostwalker was perhaps not actually killed in the orbital bombardment but was kicked out of Denver at the minimum.  I leave open in my version of the setting the possibility of GW coming back into power and influence via a less blatantly Godzilla method.

Bottom line is that I liked Denver just fine without Ghostwalker and since I failed to make that decision before I started my game last year I decided to take action post factum, as opposed to my a priori action deleting SURGE and Changelings from ever having happened in my setting.

The Great Dragons are indeed a bunch of squabbling, fractious siblings. However, I pointed out that almost every dragon (including Hestaby) consider themselves to be "above" metahumanity. If a group of their "lessers" got together and killed one of their own, I'm pretty sure they could put aside their differences long enough to make an example of that group.

[Kot]

As they did after the mentioned Theran anti-dragon crusade. They infiltrated Thera and killed many people who were involved. And they let themselves be seen. So, yes, they can work together well, if they have to.

[Crimsondude]

To answer the overarching question: Because the world in 2073 is a very different one from the world (specifically North America) of 2018. I cannot say what SG will address, but just look at what is happening in Denver AND in the nations that originally divided up Denver. There is a lot of political intrigue that is directly tied to why this is even being entertained.

[Crossbow]

This is not an attempt to step on a GMs toes, hey you are god do what you want to do, but since it was put out there as a rational response, you have to expect a differing point of view.

That said, signing off on the idea of using an orbital thor shot to take on someone in a heavily populated and valuble econimic region is not one I could see ANY reasonable head of state making, let alone five.

I would also point out that Dragons have acted in this fashion before, was there an outcry in your world in Tehran or Amazonia?

I would think the UCAS President in particular would be hesitant to sign off on such a public nightnmare with the disasters of Chicago and his predecessor's assassination.

[The_Gun_Nut]

Not to say it couldn't happen, just that there are some pretty big caveats that need to be addressed.

@Kot:  Now that I think about it, I believe it was Icewing's mate that took down the behemoth when the Therans sent a trio of them to start whacking dragons.  And she wasn't quite as potent as Icewing/Ghostwalker.  Icewing took off to another lair, then started offing Theran citizens as reprisal.

After that, the Empire decreed dragon hunting a Bad Idea ^TM.