[farfromnice]

I was watching an episode of X-file and something in the plot was related to diplomatic immunity and such

it make me wonders : How diplomatic immunity and diplomatic paper, tag, license ar handle in Shadowrun ?

Is it possible to forge ? Does Corp work with diplomatic immunity too ? etc.

what are your toughs on that ?

[Reaver]

It would still be around, although I do not know how it would apply to Corporations.

Also, keep in mind you are talking about a VERY small number of people. (usually only diplomats and workers in a consulate have diplomatic immunity, and less so for the workers).

Diplomatic immunity can also be revoked, both by the country the host country and the foreign country. (Generally not done by the Host country unless there are some grievous charges....)

[Namikaze]

Very interesting question.  There's a fair bit of information hinted at in the 4th edition book Spy Games, but the actual methods used by diplomats aren't spelled out.  There appears to be a "diplomatic pass" that can be used in Denver to get access to The Hub region, which is kind of like Council Island in Seattle.  What seems to be clear is that embassies only work for countries, not for corporations.  It seems like corporate "ambassadors" are considered salespeople, essentially.  With that said, there are governments that treat corporate interests as being much more like a rival country.  Tir Tairngire would be one of them, since they don't allow a lot of corporations to grow up in their backyard.

[Senko]

Personally I'd say it was the same for corporations who have their own extraterritorial terrirtory and can issue SIN's and currency. I'd imagine they have diplomatic envoy's to various governments and vice versa. Of course in this world your probably looking less at "Your papers are revoked, please leave our territory" and more "I'm afraid envoy peterson was brutally gunned down a tragic assault by a group of terrorists. We have our top investigators looking for them." Followed depending on the runners value by either "I regret we've not been able to catch them" or "I regret they were gunned down in a raid on their base of operations, here are the corpses."

What I'm wondering about is dual-nationality can you be a citizen of UCAS and a citizen of England? Corporations supersede national SINS going by the book so you'd be a citizen of Shiawase not a citizen of Shiawase and a citizen of UCAS and you obviously can't be a citizen of Shiawase and a citizen of Saeder Krupp.

[Reaver]

Personally I'd say it was the same for corporations who have their own extraterritorial terrirtory and can issue SIN's and currency. I'd imagine they have diplomatic envoy's to various governments and vice versa. Of course in this world your probably looking less at "Your papers are revoked, please leave our territory" and more "I'm afraid envoy peterson was brutally gunned down a tragic assault by a group of terrorists. We have our top investigators looking for them." Followed depending on the runners value by either "I regret we've not been able to catch them" or "I regret they were gunned down in a raid on their base of operations, here are the corpses."

What I'm wondering about is dual-nationality can you be a citizen of UCAS and a citizen of England? Corporations supersede national SINS going by the book so you'd be a citizen of Shiawase not a citizen of Shiawase and a citizen of UCAS and you obviously can't be a citizen of Shiawase and a citizen of Saeder Krupp.

Generally, when top level politics is involved, THAT isn't an issue as it's already been vetted out. But on the few occasions its come up, the Politian usually revokes one of his citizenships publically. Things get a little more blurry with Commonwealth Politics (England, (HK until 1997), india, Austriailia, and a select few others. All left overs from the British Empire There, the lines of citizenship gets more interesting, especially as World Politics come into play.... <Then things can get UGLY fast.>

[Senko]

Whoops that was a seperate point I assume an ambassador isn't a citizen of the country their representing and the country their representing too what I meant was can you still have dual/tripple/x citizens who are issued a SIN from multiple different countries. As in I enter Australia I get minimal screning becaues I'm a citizen, I enter Japan I get minimal screening because I'm a citizen, I enter the UCAS I get moderate screening because I'm not a citizen but I'm not using the passport of a country that raises warning flags.

[farothel]

Diplomatic immunity can also be revoked, both by the country the host country and the foreign country. (Generally not done by the Host country unless there are some grievous charges....)

When the host country doesn't want a diplomat around, they don't revoke his/her diplomatic passport.  That is something that can only be done by the issuing country (this is for all passports actually).  What they can do is declare that person 'persona non grata', which means a much as 'no matter who you are, you're now on the blacklist of our country and you can't enter or stay'.  It's not done all that often.

[Reaver]

When the host country doesn't want a diplomat around, they don't revoke his/her diplomatic passport.  That is something that can only be done by the issuing country (this is for all passports actually).  What they can do is declare that person 'persona non grata', which means a much as 'no matter who you are, you're now on the blacklist of our country and you can't enter or stay'.  It's not done all that often.

We are not talking passports, we are talking Diplomatic immunity... That little thing that allows a diplomat to beat someone to death in front of a room full of cops, and they the cops, can't do anything!  When Diplomats break the laws, Generally there is nothing that the Foreign Country hosting the Diplomat can do. Sometimes however, that host country themselves will ignore the Immunity and make an arrest anyways. For that to happen, the rime has to be pretty nasty.

In 2014, Canada Arrested, detained and now is currently trying a Philippines Diplomat and his Wife on Human trafficking charges, The first time in 70 years that a Diplomat with Immunity has been arrested in Canada.

[Nath]

What I'm wondering about is dual-nationality can you be a citizen of UCAS and a citizen of England? Corporations supersede national SINS going by the book so you'd be a citizen of Shiawase not a citizen of Shiawase and a citizen of UCAS and you obviously can't be a citizen of Shiawase and a citizen of Saeder Krupp.

For most intents and purposes, governments only recognize two cases: you're either a citizen, or you're not. Governments consider their own citizenship supercede any other status you might have. You must pay taxes, answer military draft, and whatever else citizens are supposed to. And they ignore any other citizenship you might want to wave at them. So a UCAS-British citizen can't require British consular assistance if he's arrested in the UCAS, and could be charged with treason (instead of espionnage as a foreigner would). Some countries do have accords for limited recognition of dual citizenship (the most common topic being recognition of mariage and military services made in the other country).

Most countries actually make it impossible to abandon citizenship, even when you get another one (but they of course do so while allowing themselves to revoke one's citizenship should they want to). As far as I know, the only one who does is the US (making it possible to escape the IRS if you settled abroad).

Interestingly enough, the Vienna Convention forbids appointing as a diplomat a citizen of the host country (unless the host government gives consent, but it can lift it at will).

We are not talking passports, we are talking Diplomatic immunity... That little thing that allows a diplomat to beat someone to death in front of a room full of cops, and they the cops, can't do anything!  When Diplomats break the laws, Generally there is nothing that the Foreign Country hosting the Diplomat can do. Sometimes however, that host country themselves will ignore the Immunity and make an arrest anyways. For that to happen, the rime has to be pretty nasty.

Diplomatic immunity is against search, arrest, detention, prosecution and testimony. The Vienna Convention does grant "freedom of movement", "free communication", and require "due respect" and to take "all appropriate steps to prevent any attack on [a diplomat's] person, freedom or dignity". So in your example, the cops can totally grab his arms to hamper his freedom of action, or even, depending on your definition of "due respect", shoot him or use a taser on him. They just can't put him in a cell thereafter. That's certainly going to spark a diplomatic crisis, but that's not a violation of the Vienna Convention.

At least in the real world. Not in Hollywood.

[Senko]

But he could have both sins interesting. UCAS SIN commit crime, get pulled over, wave British Empire SIN "I'm here on holiday sir don't know a thing about that crime just on my way to the hotel from airport"

[Sithlis]

In 2014, Canada Arrested, detained and now is currently trying a Philippines Diplomat and his Wife on Human trafficking charges, The first time in 70 years that a Diplomat with Immunity has been arrested in Canada.

Go Canada [/size]

[farothel]

In 2014, Canada Arrested, detained and now is currently trying a Philippines Diplomat and his Wife on Human trafficking charges, The first time in 70 years that a Diplomat with Immunity has been arrested in Canada.

Go Canada

When a diplomat is caught doing things like that, the country he's a diplomat for can revoke the diplomatic immunity and have him go on trial in the country he committed the crime.  Is never done when the charge is espionage (as that is part of being a diplomat), but in the case of crimes like the one described above, they sometimes do, as it looks bad in the news if someone is protected after such things.  Of course, not all countries see it that way and sometimes other politics also play.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Actually, the cops CAN arrest the guy, dump him in holding, etc. etc.  It's just that generally they're not going to be able to charge the guy, much less charge him and make the charges stick.  And for certain egregious issues ... I can see Geneva looking the other way.

[Reaver]

In Canada's case, they arrested and charged the Diplomat before the Phillipines revoked his Diplomatic status. The reason being the felt he was going to flee the country before political channels could work. Granted this is just one case in a host of history of diplomatic snafus...

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

So they charged him, then the guys in Manila revoked his diplomatic immunity?  Oh, that's great.  Filipinos apparently felt the guy deserved to get sent up.