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The Run they turn down.

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Sterling

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« Reply #15 on: <03-21-15/0710:23> »
I do have the beginnings of an idea, but it does depend on how you handle Public Awareness and Reputation.

Can you let us know how much emphasis you place on these rules?
"His name is Sterling. He’s an ex-pat Brit making a living as a fixer and a hacker in Metropole. He’s a rare blend of upstanding and fun...(so) listen to his experience."
>>Data Trails, p.82

Vibral

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« Reply #16 on: <03-21-15/0934:17> »
The other two GMs in the group place no value on either of those things. But there is nothing stopping me from bringing either of those to the table.

Squirrel

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« Reply #17 on: <03-21-15/1024:05> »
I highly recommend not to put a marginal rule, that is ignored all the time on the table all of a sudden.
Please excuse my English as it is not my first language. Misunderstandings are inevitable and smell peachy enough to be forgiven. Thank you :)

Sterling

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« Reply #18 on: <03-21-15/1705:05> »
The other two GMs in the group place no value on either of those things. But there is nothing stopping me from bringing either of those to the table.

Hmm... if you're not really using the Street Cred / Notoriety / Public Awareness rules then I am guessing this is game is mostly in the Pink Mohawk side of things, which really makes it difficult to rein in the players now.

If you do want to go ahead with it then take a look at the rules (p.372 in the 1st printing, p.368 in the 2nd printing).  Use a similar job to the Aztechnology run in Shadowrun Returns, except this time have the offices still be full of employees (after all, they're only Aztechnology wage-slaves)  Then over the next few sessions tart having the character's contacts refuse to help them - just because the characters are dyed-in-the-wool murdering scum doesn't mean that their mechanic, snitch, ID manufacturer is.  Those NPCs will probably have a conscience and unless the characters have a high loyalty rating will find help hard to get.  Even if they resort to threatening their contacts that will only make things worse as word gets around.  Killing these contacts is even worse once the gossip starts ("Didja hear about Little Mike? Tried to stay out of the trouble following that 'runner and the runner blew him away!").  Soon they are completely burned and no-one wants to help them, let alone hire them.

If they still persist then hit them with a bounty on their heads - at least 25,000 each - and have several bounty hunters start actively pursuing them.  Force the characters to have to burn SINs to try and throw off the hunters.  Have one of them (preferably the one with the highest Lifestyle) get word that the hunters know where they live and are watching the place.

Really start to emphasise the feel of being on the run, and then see if the players grasp the idea of what the ramifications of their actions are.
"His name is Sterling. He’s an ex-pat Brit making a living as a fixer and a hacker in Metropole. He’s a rare blend of upstanding and fun...(so) listen to his experience."
>>Data Trails, p.82

ShadowcatX

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« Reply #19 on: <03-21-15/1812:48> »
My first thought is take the run, force an evacuation of the building prior to the run, then executing the run in an abandoned building. No killing necessary.

Glyph

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« Reply #20 on: <03-21-15/2126:54> »
I think it is a bad idea all around.  When the game universe works a certain way (this includes things such a the general reliability of Johnsons, repercussions of wetwork, and so on), and you change it with no warning, players will rightfully be pissed.  They won't think "Wow, we really need to change our amoral, murderous ways".  Instead, they will think "Wow, the GM sure was a dick that last session".  If you want to introduce sweeping changes to how things work, then the best approach is to do that before the game, and get the players on board first.

Honestly, if you use rotating GMs and everyone is firmly in the play style of murder hobos, then you should probably settle for a few smaller changes (playing up consequences a tad bit more, etc.).  But "teaching the players a lesson" is not an approach that usually ends well.  Not least, because they rarely learn the actual lesson you were intending to teach them.

Vibral

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« Reply #21 on: <03-23-15/1137:37> »
This isn't about teaching anyone a lesion. I want them to think about what their characters are willing to do to fulfill their lifetime goals. If the ¥ has enough zeros after it will they do anything? I just want to see if there is a line and where it gets crossed.

Also I was proven incorrect this last session. We are using street cred but not the others.


Adder

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« Reply #22 on: <03-23-15/1406:01> »
First of all, you should decide whether you want them to take the run or not. That would be very awkward (and hard to prepare for) if they do the opposite.

Second, I agree with previous posters indicating that indiscriminate, seemingly random killing makes little sense. You can make bigger, more attractive distractions with a lower body count (bomb threat with proof that it's legit, taking hostages and threatening to execute 1/minute, etc.).

I think that most of the sentiments expressed thus far are in line with my opinion on this, namely that you can create far darker quandaries than "more money = looser morals?".

For example, imagine the runners accepting a straightforward run where they need critical information from a gang leader to proceed. He will tell them in exchange for them capturing someone he's interested in. The runners find the person and she tells them that she was kidnapped by the gang and been a sexual slave for the past two years, and only just now escaped. She pleads for her life and freedom, saying her treatment would be even worse if she was returned.

Bam. Now they're in an awkward spot. They committed to completing the mission, but had no idea this would become a key piece of it (neither did the Johnson, that helps make this harder). They can't continue without doing it (unless you let them). But it pulls the heartstrings of slavery, nonconsent and kidnapping all at once, and IMO is much more interesting than "shoot baby for 50,000¥ yes/no?".

If you really want to pull the "shoot a child" card, I'd go for something like this. Runners infiltrate an Aztechnology arcology to retrieve a package. Once inside, a kid (say, eight years old) notices runners that he's always loved watching on the trid and tells them about a maintenance shaft under construction that leads them to their target safely. On their way out, they notice that the child and their family has been round up to be sacrificed for the kid's assistance, which was caught on camera. (to make it even worse, you can have the child refuse to give up what information he told the runners so that security can't hunt them down)

Do the runners break a perfect run to help the child? Or do they walk away callously?

The best dilemmas are the ones where you've already got some "skin in the game". Telling them straight up at the beginning that they need to do something very bad in exchange for money typically leads to either straightforward "sure let's mow them down" or "no way!", which is brief and uninteresting. Flipping things during the run can force them to do something far darker than they would under unstressed circumstances.

Adder

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« Reply #23 on: <03-23-15/1419:54> »
If you really want the runners to "pull the trigger" on the killing, try this out:

An elderly, wealthy man dies with a fortune in a bank account to inherit. However, he hates his children and doesn't want them having a cent. He does dote on his granddaughter (this is more common than you might think) who he wants to inherit it all.

Prior to his death, his granddaughter had a serious birth defect in her heart as a baby and had a heart operation as a baby to repair it.  To prevent theft/legal battles later, he had the heart surgeon install a shielded RFID chip with the old man's bank passcode with the pacemaker used to keep the baby's heart going. The chip is impossible to read remotely (no wireless access, shielded) and will be taken out in twenty years when her heart will fail and she'll need a whole heart transplant, at which point she can claim the fortune for herself.

The runners accept the run to "steal the deceased's fortune" and then realize that the only way to get it is to literally rip the kid's heart out. Make sure the child is always somewhere where there's no way the runners could get her to a transplant facility in time.

Wow, this has gotten pretty dark.
« Last Edit: <03-23-15/1422:29> by Adder »

pariah3j

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« Reply #24 on: <03-23-15/1702:09> »
Going to have to end up throwing one or two of these in my game. There has been some really dark(but really good) suggestions.

Vibral

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« Reply #25 on: <03-23-15/1757:57> »
This is why I continue to ask for assistance from you all. The stuff you come up with is SOOO fantastic.

Thank you all for the help. The "No Russian" approach has been summarily dragged out into the street and shot. So many good ideas here. Thank you.