[Reaver]

meh, just like 10,000 other calls GMs make every day, Adamo made a call. Was it right? was it wrong?

Doesn't really matter as we don't know the full circumstances, but the point is, a conflict broke out and he is looking for advice on how to stop an other one.

Every day, GMs make calls, and sometimes they are the right one, and sometimes they are the wrong one... that's life, but it doesn't excuse poor behavior from all at the table.

[Namikaze]

Every day, GMs make calls, and sometimes they are the right one, and sometimes they are the wrong one... that's life, but it doesn't excuse poor behavior from all at the table.

That is certainly true.  I have had players disagree with me at my table, but we reserve the fighting for after the game is over.  Then, if the issue is still hot for that player we'll try to find a resolution so that it doesn't happen next time.  Maybe the issue is that the player disagrees with my decision to impose a penalty, or the severity of the penalty.  I'll usually explain it to them, and we'll try to make something consistent as a result.  Immature players are the ones that scream at the table because they aren't getting their way.

[Reaver]

I know GMs I play with have made called that I wouldn't have. And yes, some of those calls down right angered me. But, as you said, the table is not the time to throw a hissy fit. That comes after

No, seriously, Part of the GMs job is to make those calls. It comes with the job description (along with a host of other responsibilities as well), As players, you can make a point that you disagree with a GM call, but ultimately, you got to "roll with the punches" and accept the call, for now. After the game is done, revisit the issue in a calm manner. Explain why you feel the call was wrong and listen openly to what the GM has to say back.

As a GM, part of your job is to make sure that you are applying the rules fairly  to all. A bad call is a bad call, but can be mitigated somewhat if you applying the same call to NPCs as well. (if this is possible, sometimes, PCs do whacky things that are beyond the common sense of NPCs ). After the game is over, openly listen to what your PCs are saying. They very well could have a point! And, at the very least it gives you an incite into your player's head. Don't be afraid to admit you made a bad call either. The rules are complex, and it is easy to get confused in the heat of the moment.

Next game, sit down tell the group you made a bad call, and state for everyone how that call should have been made, that way you are all on the same page the next time something similar happens. And sometimes, that Bad call has lead to something really nasty happening.... well, if everyone is in agreement, replay the game from the point of that bad call.... yea the out come will vary dramatically, but that's not the point. the point is you are all having fun.

[Adamo1618]

Part of the GMs job is to make those calls. It comes with the job description (along with a host of other responsibilities as well), As players, you can make a point that you disagree with a GM call, but ultimately, you got to "roll with the punches" and accept the call, for now. After the game is done, revisit the issue in a calm manner. Explain why you feel the call was wrong and listen openly to what the GM has to say back.

I can agree on the fact that it was a harsh penalty but it was made in the heat of the moment. All of my players have at least some experience of GMing, so I'd expect them to have some manners or at least understanding. Problem is that we don't have a replacement GM, so we'll see what I do. Would you guys recommend excluding the loudest players from the group and give it another shot?

[Lethal Joke]

Part of the GMs job is to make those calls. It comes with the job description (along with a host of other responsibilities as well), As players, you can make a point that you disagree with a GM call, but ultimately, you got to "roll with the punches" and accept the call, for now. After the game is done, revisit the issue in a calm manner. Explain why you feel the call was wrong and listen openly to what the GM has to say back.

I can agree on the fact that it was a harsh penalty but it was made in the heat of the moment. All of my players have at least some experience of GMing, so I'd expect them to have some manners or at least understanding. Problem is that we don't have a replacement GM, so we'll see what I do. Would you guys recommend excluding the loudest players from the group and give it another shot?

Suppose that depends on how many players you've got. Personally I couldn't because there's only 3 players and myself. If you have a larger group that is a solution. I would recommend finding a tactful way of doing so, and discussing it with those you aren't throwing out before actually doing so.

[Namikaze]

Excluding loud players gets a little tricky.  It's possible that this guy is really passionate about the game, which can be a really good thing.  You have to determine if this guy's outburst was a one-time thing, or if it might happen again.  To do that, I'd suggest sitting down with him and asking him why he thought it was appropriate to act this way.  If he can acknowledge that it was not appropriate, then I think there's a chance for redemption.  If he cannot or will not acknowledge his inappropriate behavior, then I'd suggest telling him to find a new game.  Rationalizing inappropriate behavior would also result in him not being at my game next time.

The essence of what I'm saying is that passionate, mature players are rare, and should be nurtured.  Passionate, immature players are unfortunately common and should only be nurtured if you have the time and patience to do so.  Players that are just flat out assholes are also rare, and should be avoided at all costs.

I live in a city with a LOT of military personnel - we have 6 military bases in our vicinity.  In fact, every one of my players has been in one branch or another, and this is the way it's been for my group for many years.  I ran a demo game that attracted a bunch of very young soldiers, who were very passionate about the game but played it in a very immature fashion.  Called shot to the testicles, called shot to the taint, etc.  It was fun for a demo game, because I didn't care about how it would play out in the long run.  Then I met an air force cadet that came in at the last minute and blew me away by acting smart, taking things more seriously, and not trying to just fart around for giggles.  The soldiers would make fine additions to someone else's game, but they aren't my type.  The air force cadet is now one of the best players I've had in my group in a long time.

The soldiers, who were fun to play with, didn't take anything seriously and were certainly immature.  I just don't have the time or patience to deal with teaching them maturity - that's what their NCO is for.  The cadet on the other hand took things very seriously and acts with a high degree of maturity.  So if this was an accurate sample size, 25% of the community I have to play with here are going to be the kind of people I want to play with.  You have to learn to recognize when it's worth playing with a person and when it's not.  Unfortunately, I don't think any of us here can give you that answer.

[Shaidar]

Remember, Age doesn't guaranty Maturity.  I've played with 30 & 40 year-olds at my local gaming store, kind of a pick-up game, and there were a few Immature Adults.

[Reaver]

I always leave banning a player as the last possible option. But that is me, and you have to do what you think is best of your situation.