[Sendaz]

What he needs is a Horizon style Makeover. Plus I hear they take TM vouchers (now with 30% more TM in them) over there.

Hobgoblin just brings to mind the image of a gutterpunk, NeoGoblin is so much better.

Remember Respitory Cleanliness is next to Godliness, Use a Breath Mint.

If you are having to deal with a group of people, it helps to picture them naked and unarmed while holding big bags of money.
You will be amazed at how much better you feel about the situation and that glow will show through.

While you may be prone to a short temper, toss in a laugh/joke at the end of a rant to break the tension and confuse the rest of the group as they try to figure out if you are being serious or not. Plus that moment of confusion lets you get in the first shot if necessary.

[Ogrepot]

My second question for the life modules as well, in most NAN children are tested for Magic and trained if they are found. Why can't there be a module like Magical Training, but that would be from family or tribe instead of Corporate.

[Kincaid]

My second question for the life modules as well, in most NAN children are tested for Magic and trained if they are found. Why can't there be a module like Magical Training, but that would be from family or tribe instead of Corporate.

There's no reason there can't be.  I've mentioned this before, but I imagine Life Modules are going to be one of the most common houserule things that come out of the book, since so many campaigns focus on different parts of the world.  I also wouldn't be surprised if location books incorporated them down the line.  But to answer your actual question: word count.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Jason, I really wish you would let the .pdf float in the wild long enough for errata to be drawn up before you sent things to the printers.  Might help a bit with quality control.  (this one is better than previous books, though, so that's good)

2/7 Charisma is still below average, so I'm not too worried...  Plus, how many negative social qualities does he have?  Uncouth for sure... 

Huh?  No, it's not.  Normal human range is 1/6.  This is +1.

Do remember than charisma is supposed to represent force of personality, not pure likability.  For instance, you use it to intimidate, too. 

On the original subject, the thing that got me is that the section of shapeshifters doesn't mention regeneration or vulnerability/allergy to silver in any way.    Not to mention that they have them, or don't have them (which would be new) or that you had to buy regeneration similar to the Infected.  Surely this is a mistake?

And an 'average' attribute is at 3 (not the range,  which I never mentioned).  Which means 2 points in an attribute is still below average.

Dude, you're talking about the minimum, not the average.  Minimum for humans is 1, for these guys it's 2.  Average for humans is 3, for these guys 4.  Max for humans is 6, for these guys 7.

It's +1 in all cases.  Please tell me you get that. 

[MijRai]

Dude, you're talking about the minimum, not the average.  Minimum for humans is 1, for these guys it's 2.  Average for humans is 3, for these guys 4.  Max for humans is 6, for these guys 7.

It's +1 in all cases.  Please tell me you get that.

I get what you're saying; that said, I disagree with your interpretation.  A 3 is your 'average person' level of Charisma, Logic, etc. (it falls apart when it comes to physical stats).  I specifically said 2/7 is still below average metahuman Charisma, which it is (it's also below your idea of 4/7 being the hobgoblin average; it's further below, in fact). 

[Herr Brackhaus]

For what it's worth, Clockwork is actually given attributes in the Twilight Horizon book (page 74 if you're interested). In it, he's given the following:
Metatype: Hobgoblin
Charisma 3
No social skills
Poor Self Control: Vindictive
Prejudiced (Technomancers, actively prjeudiced)

[Sir_Prometheus]

Dude, you're talking about the minimum, not the average.  Minimum for humans is 1, for these guys it's 2.  Average for humans is 3, for these guys 4.  Max for humans is 6, for these guys 7.

It's +1 in all cases.  Please tell me you get that.

I get what you're saying; that said, I disagree with your interpretation.  A 3 is your 'average person' level of Charisma, Logic, etc. (it falls apart when it comes to physical stats).  I specifically said 2/7 is still below average metahuman Charisma, which it is (it's also below your idea of 4/7 being the hobgoblin average; it's further below, in fact).

We're at the point that I'm not getting what you don't get.  1/6 is average metahuman.  2/7 is more than that. 

[MijRai]

Dude, you're talking about the minimum, not the average.  Minimum for humans is 1, for these guys it's 2.  Average for humans is 3, for these guys 4.  Max for humans is 6, for these guys 7.

It's +1 in all cases.  Please tell me you get that.

I get what you're saying; that said, I disagree with your interpretation.  A 3 is your 'average person' level of Charisma, Logic, etc. (it falls apart when it comes to physical stats).  I specifically said 2/7 is still below average metahuman Charisma, which it is (it's also below your idea of 4/7 being the hobgoblin average; it's further below, in fact).

We're at the point that I'm not getting what you don't get.  1/6 is average metahuman.  2/7 is more than that.

No, a 1 is not 'average'.  A 1 is sub-par, it means you are below average in that attribute.  1 through 6 is your average human's attribute range, generally (there's qualities that can change that).  Just like some people can be idiots, obtuse, wimpy, frail, slow, etc., others can be geniuses, very perceptive, buff, tough, fast, etc.  Regardless, a 3 is your average attribute rating among humans, most mental stats for others, etc.  If you don't have a three, you are below average. 

[Bull]

You're arguing in circles and starting to get a bit heated.  Might wanna take a step back, take a deep breath, and ask "is this really worth arguing about"?

[Sir_Prometheus]

Well, honestly, at this point, he's obviously just confused, and I'm trying to help him out.

MijRai, you do get it that it's a range right?  1/6 means min of 1, max of 2.  Humans have the "average" of 1/6 in everything but edge, where they have 2/7 (which is more than everything else gets).  Like, look at the table on pg 66, compare humans to everyone else. 

So yes, you're right, 3 is the average score on the range of 1/6.......and 4 is the average on the range 2/7.  You even get the free attribute point in that stat.  So 2/7 is effectively +1 over the 1/6 range.

Please tell me you get this point. 


Unless you're saying that with a 2/7 you still CAN have below average charisma.......and if so, why is that worth noting?  You probably won't.  The least charismatic hobgoblin is still more charismatic than the least charismatic human. 

[MijRai]

I'm not confused, I understand what you're saying.  I've made my point and I'm done with the topic now, since it seems you're either not getting what I'm saying, or are disagreeing and trying to argue a tangent instead.  I suggest you not call me confused, and consider the help unwanted at this point. 

[Csjarrat]

Well, honestly, at this point, he's obviously just confused, and I'm trying to help him out.

MijRai, you do get it that it's a range right?  1/6 means min of 1, max of 2.  Humans have the "average" of 1/6 in everything but edge, where they have 2/7 (which is more than everything else gets).  Like, look at the table on pg 66, compare humans to everyone else. 

So yes, you're right, 3 is the average score on the range of 1/6.......and 4 is the average on the range 2/7.  You even get the free attribute point in that stat.  So 2/7 is effectively +1 over the 1/6 range.

Please tell me you get this point. 


Unless you're saying that with a 2/7 you still CAN have below average charisma.......and if so, why is that worth noting?  You probably won't.  The least charismatic hobgoblin is still more charismatic than the least charismatic human.

No, 1/6 is your starting minimum and represents the least buff/intelligent/human possible under chargen. You then add your attribute points to bring up your bare minimum to average or better, 6 being pro athlete levels or NASA scientist level equivalents and 3s being average human stats.

[Sir_Prometheus]

OK, I give up.  If you don't see how 2/7 is better than 1/6 (i.e., same as dwarves have more willpower than humans) ......then I don't know.

Is this a troll?  I think this might have been a troll.   

[Sendaz]

Is this a troll?  I think this might have been a troll.

Nope, Trolls are just 1/4 for CHA


Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Ogrepot]

Good one Sendaz, i laughed.