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Downside to Bioware.

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Glyph

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« Reply #15 on: <07-19-14/2116:38> »
I fail to see the real problem here.  So someone takes some augmentations to be good at combat.  So what?  Shadowrunners are supposed to be good at their jobs.  The basic mooks of the game, the thugs one rung below street gangers, roll 6 dice to attack and 6 dice for passive defense - and the game has rules for teamwork, in addition to traditional wolfpack tactics (the one being attacked uses full defense while the others try to strike from an advantageous position).  Even mooks can get lucky, or be dangerous in numbers, and it only escalates from there.  What kind of enemies are you sending against the group?    I can't see how a starting character could be breezing through the opposition.

Novocrane

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« Reply #16 on: <07-19-14/2257:50> »
Downside to bio? It's alive, and subject to all downsides therein that cyber are not.

SirValeq

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« Reply #17 on: <07-20-14/0557:01> »
Well, it's not written anywhere, but you might rule that bioware is especially tasty for ghouls...

ZeConster

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« Reply #18 on: <07-20-14/0752:11> »
I thought the downside of bioware was "it's crazy expensive".

Mara

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« Reply #19 on: <07-20-14/0939:48> »
I thought the downside of bioware was "it's crazy expensive".

Yeah, however, in SR5, taking Priority A for resources...really leaves you with plenty you can do. Interestingly,
Bioware really does a good Tank Sam. You want to do a speed Sam, then it is Cyber with Wired Reflexes and
reaction boosters wirelessly enabled. But, building a Street Sam who takes hits and soaks LOTS is where an
all Bioware Street Sam excels.

farothel

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« Reply #20 on: <07-20-14/1101:32> »
One word: stunbolt.

I'm not sure how the spell works in 5th edition, but in 4th if you want to take down those uber-cybered or -bioed street sammies, throw a stunbolt.  It has a rediculous low drain, so overcasting is easy and it's defended with willpower, mostly not the street sammie's highest priority.  It's not the first time I one-shot cybered-up trolls who normally go 'stop shooting me, it tickles'.
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firebug

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« Reply #21 on: <07-20-14/1431:37> »
One word: stunbolt.

I'm not sure how the spell works in 5th edition, but in 4th if you want to take down those uber-cybered or -bioed street sammies, throw a stunbolt.  It has a rediculous low drain, so overcasting is easy and it's defended with willpower, mostly not the street sammie's highest priority.  It's not the first time I one-shot cybered-up trolls who normally go 'stop shooting me, it tickles'.

Stunbolt was rebalanced so it doesn't one-shot everything forever anymore.  Now it's damage is just the net hits you get, though it is still defended with just Willpower.

Also, I'm with Glyph.  A street samurai being good at combat is not a bad thing.  A Shadowrun game is not all about combat.  If the combat being easy for one character is impacting the game too much, you need to branch out into the other scenarios that should be popping up.
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farothel

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« Reply #22 on: <07-21-14/0412:25> »
Besides, bioware can be detected with a good assensing roll.  And at airports and some other high profile points they will have mages and/or spirits who specialise in that sort of thing.  They detect the bio that way and then have security take the guy to another room where an MRI machine is waiting to see exactly what he has put in his body (hopefully nothing with a F rating  :) ).
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Glyph

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« Reply #23 on: <07-21-14/2158:03> »
If you make cybersensors to ubiquitous, you will inconvenience the street samurai with cyberware a lot more than the guy with bioware.  Besides, when you run into scanners, the usual plan is not "Gee, hope that scanner doesn't detect my cybergun loaded with explosive rounds".  You will have a legitimate reason to be there and someone to vouch for you, have fake permits for your augmentations, or will be counting on your hacker buddy to get you past it.

Someone with a few skills of 6, decent Attributes, and 400 K or thereabouts in bioware is tough, sure, but not overwhelming.  It's like being a hacker with some skills of 6 and a good deck, or a mage or adept with Magic of 6, some skills of 6, and a few foci.  It's normal for the game.  Look at the street samurai and the tank - these are basic archetypes.  Granted, one of them has overspent by 200 K +, and the other one is hobbled by an Agility of 2.  But they still show that a high level of augmentation for a combat character is nothing unusual.

JimmyCrisis

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« Reply #24 on: <07-22-14/0037:25> »
Besides, bioware can be detected with a good assensing roll.  And at airports and some other high profile points they will have mages and/or spirits who specialise in that sort of thing.  They detect the bio that way and then have security take the guy to another room where an MRI machine is waiting to see exactly what he has put in his body (hopefully nothing with a F rating  :) ).

That is not how airport security works.  Functional mages are as rare as doctors, and security isn't willing to pay that much for a trained professional just to do random spot-checks.  Maybe at a major airport you'll have a dedicated mage to cast 'detect weapon' during the busy hours at the main checkpoint.  That and the Feds are generally magic-phobic, assuming airport security is still federally controlled.  Airport security does not use MRI machines.  They would have decent cyberware, olfactory, and weapon scanners.  So, make a perception + intuition three times with a Sensor rating of 5 or so.  Failing that may result in arrest or failing to catch the flight.

RHat

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« Reply #25 on: <07-22-14/0230:21> »
Besides, bioware can be detected with a good assensing roll.  And at airports and some other high profile points they will have mages and/or spirits who specialise in that sort of thing.  They detect the bio that way and then have security take the guy to another room where an MRI machine is waiting to see exactly what he has put in his body (hopefully nothing with a F rating  :) ).

That is not how airport security works.  Functional mages are as rare as doctors, and security isn't willing to pay that much for a trained professional just to do random spot-checks.  Maybe at a major airport you'll have a dedicated mage to cast 'detect weapon' during the busy hours at the main checkpoint.  That and the Feds are generally magic-phobic, assuming airport security is still federally controlled.  Airport security does not use MRI machines.  They would have decent cyberware, olfactory, and weapon scanners.  So, make a perception + intuition three times with a Sensor rating of 5 or so.  Failing that may result in arrest or failing to catch the flight.

A full mage isn't really required, though - an Adept with Astral Perception, a very low-level Awakened person who only has Astral Perception, or even just a properly trained para-critter could do the job, which would cover off more than just 'ware; you need that element to pick up on things like spirits, active spells, and so on.
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Leevizer

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« Reply #26 on: <07-22-14/0512:19> »
Actually, according to the Coyote sourcebook about borders, there was a TON of security, even magical, even at the "safe" borders... I'd be willing to bet the same applied to airports, ja?

Vance_Freelance

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« Reply #27 on: <07-30-14/2152:17> »
Two words: overwhelming numbers.  Enough goons with shotguns will eventually make him unable to dodge bullets, and unless he's a troll with armoured cyber limbs he's not soaking 10 boxes of damage repeatedly. T-250's are cheaper than pistols so it'd make sense for goons to have them. Electricity damage (stun batons) are also very good against tank-like objects because of the high AP.

That said the average Sam is supposed to be able to move through a bunch of basic goons no problem - that's why the Sam gets paid.  It's the goons backup that's supposed to be the problem.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #28 on: <07-30-14/2344:25> »
Well, you can reach a 9-10 Body without too much trouble, and get some moderately heavy armor, you only need another 21 points to mostly-reliably shrug off weapons fire.

Which is why I go with chem and aim to avoid armor if I can.  "Roll your Body + Will + chemical defense, Homer!!"  "Wait, what?!?"
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LionofPerth

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« Reply #29 on: <07-31-14/0407:13> »
This is going to be a long one from me, so you'll have to forgive me.

The first part of it is that it's very expensive. While it's great, the cost behind it makes it a spiral. If you want some decent bioware, you need the money, you bioware has been damaged/detected and removed or a new model is what you're now after, you're going to need the nuyen to get it, meaning you're working and need some pretty good jobs or a good run of successful runs. 

While the character is certainly doing his job, I would still have a look at the type of security you're having the team up against. There's something that should be able to hurt them held on stand by in every major office, team. There's got to be something that makes them pull back. Geek the mage first is said for a reason and a good place to start.

As for detection of it, I'd look to the above posts, they offer some good options. Bad luck happens to everyone, and you might be dealing with someone who really thinks the metahuman body is sacred and should not be changed, biologically or cybernetically. There are plenty of ways to detect it, if you're looking for it.

As well as that, on the security side, I think you should look at general security for where he goes too. Bioware, because it is so expensive, makes him a target of bioware harvesting groups. If he wants that type of character, he should pay the price. Especially if he's got a fair bit of work done. Each time he's goes in for a new piece, remind him that he might not actually wake up. Sure it's something of a cheap shot, but this is Shadowrun and more importantly it's also what makes sense in my mind. It's revenge and profit combined into one neat little package.

On the subject of revenge, the use of an assault cannon is encouraged here. If people know him for being said wall of flesh, then they'll take active measures to either disable or to work around.

Try and build situations up for options that don't involve extreme violence. Give the group tasks that are only offered because the troll is known as being a reflective bullet magnet. Make him do the negotiations and build on challenges in those runs that while he's needed to take hits, some pretty big ones, there's still plenty for the others to do. Play on the team identity as well, across the whole group.

Chemical, magic, also presents options and have been well listed above. Same goes elemental types of damage.

On a personal note, when it comes to the low Essence part of it, I had an idea in my mind for that. I suppose I see it as the spark, creative force, that some people have. That thing which makes them stand out, makes Mick Jagger, Mick Jagger. That if he's pursuing any sort of creative path, art, performing etc, that things feel different, harder. That things are more..... technical, less creative. That music feels duller, less intensive, inspiring, emotional. Art he loved is now that little bit boring, he needs to be in the right mood to enjoy it. Same goes for anything that the character particularly enjoys.

I'd even have gone as far as to have subtle reactions, that people don't seem to notice him at first. It's hard to explain to be honest. It's like everyone is slightly distracted when it comes to him. They need to focus a little more on the fact he is physically there. This isn't any sort of active stealth or hiding, more that there's something less notable about his troll. I wouldn't go so far as to describe this character as a meat shell, but there's something about the character that just rubs the more sensitive the wrong way. They don't need to be adepts or magicians either, there's just something less about them that makes people react badly. 

Imagine going in to buy some food and the metahuman behind the counter screams at you to get out, which causes building security to come in and escort you out. That's perhaps taking it a little further than I might, but is none the less an option. Perhaps being charged a little more for basic purchases every so often, or selling things for a little less than he should get as well. That he needs to repeat himself every so often, as he's not obviously noticed. People might walk into him for being so busy, really it's from the low Essence. I'd supporting many different ideas, as long as they were subtle, gentle and creative. Like all of those little frustrations that you get over the course of a too long day.

I plan on making this apply to all characters of less than two, three essence.
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