[Michael Chandra]

Hm... Since it's unclear how a TM would get an electronical form of Reagents, how does a small algorithm you put together sound? Basically you'd use one of your skills (Threading?) to put together a Technomancer 'alchemical preparation' of sorts, so there's a shelf-life and a limit to how many you can have at a time, and can use those to suppress the Fading?

Note to self: Dig deeper into TMs.

[8-bit]

Perhaps for the "Source Code" it would be a test similar to gathering reagents?

I was thinking Compiling + Resonance [Mental/Social] (whichever is higher) for creating new "Source Code" out of the Resonance. Alternatively, if you Decompile a Sprite, it leaves behind traces of "Source Code" that can be harvested with no effort, other than decompiling the Sprite, of course. This could lead to some bad Resonance Reputation (for lack of a better term) if you continuously decompile Sprites just to get at their "Source Code".

I still haven't decided whether I like the term "Source Code" or "Packets" more for the Technomancer's reagents. Any thoughts?

[Sternenwind]

“Guild”
What about “Noise and Matrix use” (SR5 S.231)?

“Blur”
Yes, one could say the same for the Masking metamagic. But I don’t. It is harder in SR5 to mask as to see through it.
With SR4 Blur, the rules you are using, in SR5 you could be the best decker* in the world, better than Fast Jack ever was, have an 900k Deck, and still you cannot see through the blur of a technomancer with enough submersions. Hack, your character could have hundredfold the karma and ¥ of this technomancer and it wouldn’t matter.

“Regents”
How about time?
You invest X hour for additional preparations and reduce the fade by one.

*Or technomancer, they too have limits for matrix perception.

[Namikaze]

“Guild”
What about “Noise and Matrix use” (SR5 S.231)?

Since a Host has no physical location, Noise isn't a factor.  That's not written in the rules that way, but it is heavily implied by this sentence:

They have no physical location, being made up of the stuff of the Matrix itself.

I mean, the book literally has no better definition of what makes a host than that.  Since Unwired isn't out yet, and I don't want to go through all the hand-wringing and arguing that would come with me proposing my own idea of what a host is composed of, let alone where it is housed...  I went with the way the book defines a host.  A Guild Host is simply a host on the Public Grid - that's it.  Noise is irrelevant with regards to connecting to hosts, unless you're attempting to connect to a device on the host's WAN.  The device has a physical location, so it is therefore associated with Noise.  The host itself does not have a physical location though.

“Blur”
Yes, one could say the same for the Masking metamagic. But I don’t.

You're literally saying that what I'm saying makes sense, but you're choosing to ignore it.  Drop the Blur topic if you're not willing to have a conversation about it.

“Regents”
How about time?
You invest X hour for additional preparations and reduce the fade by one.

I like the idea of calling them Packets, which separates them from the Source Code that a technomancer can create and acts as a material link to the character.  So let's say you Thread some packets, and take some Fading as a result.  Playing with numbers still, but what about a Complex Form to create Packets that looks like this:

Target: Self, Duration: P, FV: L - 1
The character rolls an extended Threading + Resonance (Level, 1 Combat Turn).  When the test is complete, the character has some "Packets" which can be used by the character (and only the character) to manipulate their Complex Forms, allowing the character to expend a number of Packets to set the limit on a Complex Form test.  The number of Packets spent in this way must be equal to the desired limit on the Complex Form test.

[8-bit]

The test should be Software + Resonance (Level, 1 Combat Turn) to match all the other Complex Forms. Also, how many Packets get created? The chosen Level?

[Namikaze]

Yes you're right about the test.  And I forgot to write the bit that I had in my head, oops. 

You generate a number of Packets equal to the Level of the Complex Form.  Here's a revised version:

THREAD PACKETS

Target: Self, Duration: P, FV: L - 1
The character rolls an extended Software + Resonance (Level, 1 Combat Turn).  When the test is complete, the character has a number of "Packets" equal to the Level of the Complex Form.  Packets may be used by the character (and only the character) to manipulate their Complex Forms, allowing the character to expend a number of Packets to set the limit on a Complex Form test.  The number of Packets spent in this way must be equal to the desired limit on the Complex Form test.

[8-bit]

Do you plan to bring any more Echoes and/or Complex Forms from Unwired over? Just curiosity's sake, as I've been rereading the book and some of them seem quite interesting and useful to me.

Edit: Also, for Mesh Reality; do you use Hot Sim VR for your Matrix Initiative, or Cold Sim VR? Your example uses Cold Sim, and I can't seem to find any indication in Unwired that you would use Hot Sim, but I was just curious as to your reasoning.

[Namikaze]

Do you plan to bring any more Echoes and/or Complex Forms from Unwired over? Just curiosity's sake, as I've been rereading the book and some of them seem quite interesting and useful to me.

When I initially built this document, I tried to consider the differences in the Matrix from 4th to 5th edition.  Without knowing more about how the Matrix works now, I wasn't sure about how to convert some of the echoes over.  The Complex Forms have changed so radically between editions, I simply didn't see a way to convert them at all.

Edit: Also, for Mesh Reality; do you use Hot Sim VR for your Matrix Initiative, or Cold Sim VR? Your example uses Cold Sim, and I can't seem to find any indication in Unwired that you would use Hot Sim, but I was just curious as to your reasoning.

You bring up a good question here.  I was building Mesh Reality off the version from Unwired, and so it's possible there was some copy-pasta mistake there.  Because of the changes to how Initiative is handled between editions, it probably should be running off your Hot Sim.  Technomancers can't even use Cold Sim anyway, so that's just a mistake on my part.  I'll get it updated. 

[Syntetesh]

Do you plan to bring any more Echoes and/or Complex Forms from Unwired over? Just curiosity's sake, as I've been rereading the book and some of them seem quite interesting and useful to me.

When I initially built this document, I tried to consider the differences in the Matrix from 4th to 5th edition.  Without knowing more about how the Matrix works now, I wasn't sure about how to convert some of the echoes over.  The Complex Forms have changed so radically between editions, I simply didn't see a way to convert them at all.

I think the skinlink echoes is still the same but with the change of how complex forms work (they are all active tricks) I wonder how to convert the old unrated CF, like smartlink CF or simrig CF.

We can may be create an offshoot of CF that will inculde all the permanent/passive CF, the subroutine! (Or make them echoes but i don't really like this idea ) or did they fall under the Emulation echoes?

For the technomancer equivalent of way, why do you want them to give exclusive echoes rather than giving them a facility to learn them?
For the adept it is a PP cost reduction, for the technomancer it could be the ability to learn a list of 3 or 4 echoes by paying karma without the need to go through submersion. (Yes, i know GM can allow that as alternate rules)

For the packets, i don't think creating them from nowhere is a good idea, this will not rise interactions between technomancer like talismongling do for mage.
I think Packets should be found and extracted accross the Matrix, this way you can limit their availability and increase their value and usefulness (needed to create widget? increasing their duration? make them like technofoci?)

Is there any specific thread about technomancer special gear? Like fake datajack sticker, concealed datatachip (tongue piercing in my case), OS designed for tech with weird ergonomics applying malus to no-tech users? ^^

[Namikaze]

I think the skinlink echoes is still the same but with the change of how complex forms work (they are all active tricks) I wonder how to convert the old unrated CF, like smartlink CF or simrig CF.

The skinlink is an echo that I give to every technomancer in my games.  It's just a thing that is always there and available, allowing data transfers and shares without the need for the Matrix within the technomancer's electromagnetic field.  As to converting the CFs from 4th edition, the problem you describe is exactly why I avoided them altogether.  It might be possible to make a CF, enhancement, or echo that could emulate some or all of the 4th edition CFs, like the smartlink and/or simrig.  I was planning on giving the simrig emulation to the Remote Operations Domain as an enhancement.  The technomancer can only use their Living Simrig or their Living Persona at once though, they can't use both at the same time.

For the technomancer equivalent of way, why do you want them to give exclusive echoes rather than giving them a facility to learn them?
For the adept it is a PP cost reduction, for the technomancer it could be the ability to learn a list of 3 or 4 echoes by paying karma without the need to go through submersion. (Yes, i know GM can allow that as alternate rules)

Well the goal is not to emulate the adept Ways, but rather the Arts of mages.  When a mage initiates, they can choose to initiate into an Art by taking a particular metamagic or ritual.  Once they've done that, they can buy the remainder of the Art without having to initiate again.  It's similar to the Ways of adepts, but the big difference is that an adept can only choose one Way, whereas a mage can take many different Arts.  Now that we're looking at having something like 8 or 9 Domains, it makes a lot of sense to go in the direction of emulating the Arts rather than the Ways.

For the packets, i don't think creating them from nowhere is a good idea, this will not rise interactions between technomancer like talismongling do for mage.
I think Packets should be found and extracted accross the Matrix, this way you can limit their availability and increase their value and usefulness (needed to create widget? increasing their duration? make them like technofoci?)

This is an interesting idea as well, and I had considered something similar.  The problem is that nothing on your persona sticks around after a reboot.  Since a lot of technomancers reboot at night when asleep, the technomancer would have to spend part of each day scouring the Matrix for some packets.  So while I like the idea of adding a sense of wandering the Matrix and getting into trouble to acquire packets, it doesn't make a lot of sense in the Matrix's current incarnation.  There's a hint in Data Trails will have something called Deep Dives, which is a completely foreign concept to me - I have no idea what it's going to be or how it's going to be implemented.  It is possible that Deep Dives will give personas a sense of permanence, but at that point I'm expecting to see advanced technomancer rules in that book that override everything I'm putting together now.

Is there any specific thread about technomancer special gear? Like fake datajack sticker, concealed datatachip (tongue piercing in my case), OS designed for tech with weird ergonomics applying malus to no-tech users? ^^

I've never seen a thread about this kind of thing.  You should consider starting one though, it might be a lot of fun! 

[8-bit]

I was actually thinking of only one Echo.

Advanced Overclocking - Seems pretty simple to add; just have it give +2d6 initiative dice while in VR, and allow it to break the normal rule of only 5 dice.

Also, yeah, I see the problem with converting the Complex Forms. They really would need a complete redesign.

[Namikaze]

Okay, so after talking it over with my technomancer player I think we've settled on what to refer to the technomancer equivalent of reagents.  They will be called tokens of Source.  Calling the "reagent" by the name Source refers to the connection between the technomancer and the Resonance, and it has intentional wording relationships with the Source Code task for Submersion.  We had toyed around with a bunch of different terms for the quantity, but in the end tokens just made more sense.  Fun fact, some of the unique quantity measurements we found: Wheatons (a Wheaton is 500,000 followers on social media), a GLOC (pronounced Gee-Lock for giga-line of code or 1,000,000,000 lines of code), and Erlang (named for a unit of communication in telephones).  We tried to say these things with straight faces, but none of them worked so we just stuck to tokens.

Also, according to this post by Miri, there's a great idea for some sort of advanced echo regarding programs.  I'd like to use Miri's idea in these rules, but I don't know how to best implement the idea just yet.  The actual discussion of Miri's house rule is being handled in Miri's thread.  But I'll keep an eye on both areas to see if anything comes up that sounds good.  Here's what I like as a proposal:
Domain: probably the Cracking domain, but maybe universal?
Advanced Echo: Emulation
Echo Requirement: Program

The technomancer gains further control over his ability to manipulate the flow of data.  With this advanced echo, the technomancer can have multiple programs running at once, with no penalty for sustaining the programs.  For each program to be run, the technomancer must pass a Software+Resonance test, with a threshold variable based on the type of program to be emulated.  For Common programs, the threshold is 2.  For Hacking programs, the threshold is 4.  For each program to be emulated, the technomancer also must resist Fading equal to the threshold of the test.

A technomancer may have no more programs emulated at one time than they have Submersion Grades.  Additionally, the emulation cannot replicate the effects of Pilot programs, Agents, or other semi-autonomous programs.  Finally, all programs being emulated are shut down when the technomancer jacks out of the Matrix or reboots his Living Persona.