[FasterN8]

Well you edited as I was responding so I too won't point out the Magic Point variance

As for Spells Maxed out.  Honesty, my humble opinion on that is that 5E is so short on Attribute Points compared to 1st-3rd & that since Qualities Double later,  that many skip spells because they are either gimp in Attr Points or they want the Qualities NOW since Spells will be the same in Karma later.
If you had more starting Attr Points.  (Priority-A in 3 previous editions gave you a 5 Average, now its only a 4 Average.),  and if Qualities stayed the same post Char-Gen, then I think you might get a lot more people taking spells earlier.  I know I personally would.  But maybe that's just me.  And I still see quite a few builds that max it.

Agreed w/ you on the entire concept of buying PP.  I think Splitting Magic & Auto-Power Point, the way it was always done, would be a much better option.

I hear what you're saying and you're dead on about the reasons why people don't take more spells (which are still awesome btw).  Chargen certainly favors qualities, and attribute boosts are massively useful.  On the other hand, spells are cheap, don't change cost after chargen, don't increase cost with the number you know AND there's no upper limit for how many you can know after chargen.   Adepts would cry like mana was falling from heaven if they could have that kind of cost and availability after chargen.  Unfortunately their Power Points are rather distributed with an eyedropper, by comparison.

I think the post-chargen economy already values them more, but if I had so say why PP *should* be valued higher, I'd say the biggest reason would be the advantage in action economy.  For the bulk of Adept powers, they just ARE.  No casting ahead of time, no sustaining penalty, no bound spirits or qualities needed to avoid those penalties.  Spells are still awesome and unique, but adept powers are generally way better at what they do.  And when the drek hits the fan unexpectedly, the adept is ready to go right NOW.  That's at least a step or two ahead of the mage if he wants to have buffing spells and in this game, a step or two is quite a lot.

[RHat]

Would you explain, please?

Basically, as it stands, Power Points have a substantive cost that exceeds just being 5 Karma - the fact that's it's chargen only means that it's a lot more than just spending Karma, but a matter of spending chargen Karma, which makes things complicated for qualities, contacts, various options for magical power - having to spend that Karma is a serious outlay.  More importantly, Power Points and Spells, generally speaking, don't do the same thing - spells make you versatile with power you have; Power Points make you more powerful.  A direct exchange like that would be woefully unbalanced.

For there to be a way to be more Adept than Mage, you'd have to take away from casting/conjuring/preparing power, not versatility - honestly, a sliding cost to Power Points based on current Magic would help.

[Xenon]

taking away casting/conjuring/preparing versatility in addition to chargen Karma in exchange for power points versatility is a perfectly viable balance mechanic if you ask me.




A mystic that today get magic A get 10 spells and no power points.
He can spend 25 of his chargen karma to get 5 power points.
He now get both a lot of casting/conjuring/preparing versatility in addition to power points versatility
He suffer because he don't have karma to flesh out his character with positive qualities, focus, skills, attributes etc.

With my proposed house rule he would get 5 spells and 5 power points for 10 karma.
He then spend the remaining 15 of his chargen karma to get 3 more spells.
He now still get both quite a lot of casting/conjuring/preparing versatility in addition to power points versatility
(but he only get 8 spells and 5 power points instead of 10 spells and 5 power points)
He still suffer because he don't have karma to flesh out his character with positive qualities, focus, skills, attributes etc.

Getting both casting/conjuring/preparing versatility and full power points will be more expansive with my proposed rule.





By core you can make a mystic into an identical magician except that mystic does not have astral perception or projection and have the option to get power points during initiation later.
With my proposed house rule you can still do that.






By core you cannot make a mystic into a physical adept with just a few spells on the side.
You can't trade casting/conjuring/preparing versatility for power points.
With my proposed house rule you can now do that. Sort of.
A physical Adept with priority B will get 6 power points and 25 spare karma.


A mystic at priority B will get 4 magic and 7 free spells.
To get 6 magic he would either need to get 2 more special attribute points from metatype or get a A magic priority

1) If he get 2 more special attribute points from metatype to reach 6 power points:
This will cost him 12 of his 25 chargen karma and all but 1 of his free spells.
The "cost" for getting 1 free spell and the option to spend karma on more spells during gameplay is 2 special attribute points and half of his chargen karma.
He also does not get power points (not free nor with karma) when he raise magic during gameplay

2) If he get a higher resonance or magic priority to reach 6 power points:
This will cost him 12 of his 25 chargen karma and all but 4 of his 10 free spells.
The "cost" for getting 4 free spell and the option to spend karma on more spells during gameplay is a higher magic priority and half of his chargen karma.
He also does not get power points (not free nor with karma) when he raise magic during gameplay




A mystic that goes magic A can now choose anything between 10 free spells, 25 starting karma and 0 power points down to 4 free spells, 13 starting karma and 6 power points. A mystic that get power points will, compared to a magician, get less chargen karma, less casting/conjuring/preparing versatility, no astral projection and have to buy astral perception. That is the cost for having power points out of chargen and the option to trade metamagic for powerpoints during gameplay.



Perfectly balanced imo.

[Tarislar]

So,  I was trying to come up with an accurate PP cost.
Personally I like 5K since it matches a spell.
And when I look at what a single PP can buy v/s how useful a spell is, well I'm thinking actually the PP actually might be over priced.
Example:  1 Attribute Point always,  or up to 4 points sustained spell.   Hmm, that can be debated as to what is better.

Anyway, I realized we have a mechanic for PP cost in game right now.  Initiation.
Initiation costs 13K for 1st PP + 3 Karma for every additional PP.

Assuming that is a "fair" cost & that Initiation is the 7th point, & we follow the pattern backwards then PP cost would look something like this.
10+7+4+1+1+1 = 24 / 6 = 4K Each.
Now Initiation includes an Attribute Cap increase that has to count for something.  So I also looked at only counting back by 2's.
11+9+7+5+3+1 = 36 / 6 = 6K Each.

Not sure this is even remotely accurate but what can I say, I was basing it off the existing formulas that are already established.

Moving on, the last thing I was looking at was that Spells do get slightly more expensive Post Gen because you are having to pay for the Formula Cost too.  Those cost range from 500-2000 NY.  And we already have a formula for NY > Karma conversion at 1K/2000NY.
Finally there is the Time it takes to learn a spell, and as the age old saying goes,  Time = Money.

Anyway, as non-scientific as it all was, it lead me to the following slightly adjusted idea.

1.  At Chargen PP's cost 5K & can be swapped freely for known spells.
2.  Chargen Cap on Known Spells = Magic x 2 is expanded to include PP's + Spells = Magic x2
3.  Post Chargen Mystics may purchase PPs up to Max Starting Magic Attr for 7K Each.

[RHat]

Example:  1 Attribute Point always,  or up to 4 points sustained spell.   Hmm, that can be debated as to what is better.

See, the famously overpriced example is a terrible basis to be going off of.

In any case:  Swapping spells for Power Points like that will lead to horribly overpowered characters.