[Reiper]

I'm in the process of building a face with a full on Corporate SIN.

Depending on the campaign, I may or may not have him still be secretly working with the Corp (EVO) or may have taken off to investigate the murder of his girlfriend, depending on the GM and campaign setup.

But I have a few questions.

Would you consider it cheese? It is a 25 Karma NQ, which is a lot of Karma. It is certainly one that can backfire on you heavily, but it also is one that may be able to stay hidden during an entire campaign (although I do plan on having at least 4 fake IDs at all times if not more to try to keep the Corp SIN from being known). But I'm also looking at it just from my character's point of view and not from a GM point of view.

Also, from a GM perspective, what types of challenges would you throw at someone with a Corp SIN?

And from a player perspective, if you discovered one of your teammates had one, how would you react? Personally? I'be black mail him and get a cut of his pay (unless he had earned my trust in a big way beforehand, then it wouldn't be a huge deal although it would hurt the trust)).

[Cowdragon]

super interested in this because I've been trying to make a very VERY similar idea work. Ideas appreciated.

[Michael Chandra]

Talk to your GM about this. Unless they're absolutely sure they (and you!) can find the fine balance between ruining your game and basically giving you all that karma for free, do NOT take it. This NQ is a massive pitfall.

As player I'd probably do what the thing says: Assume you're a traitor and burn all bridges. Including you if necessary. After a torture-scene with kneecapping and such.

[Reiper]

super interested in this because I've been trying to make a very VERY similar idea work. Ideas appreciated.

From a GM standpoint, things I'd end up making the Corp SINNER do at least once in the campaign.

Run into people they know.
Do a run against their actual Corp.
Have someone try to blackmail them.

Basically I wouldn't force their cover to be blown, but they would run into instances where they would have to hide their identity quite a bit (mainly because it was a 25 karma NQ). And in all honesty, I don't know if many archetypes other than a face could pull it off.

Talk to your GM about this. Unless they're absolutely sure they (and you!) can find the fine balance between ruining your game and basically giving you all that karma for free, do NOT take it. This NQ is a massive pitfall.

As player I'd probably do what the thing says: Assume you're a traitor and burn all bridges. Including you if necessary. After a torture-scene with kneecapping and such.

Yeah, it is definitely one that I'd talk to a GM about beforehand.

[Namikaze]

As soon as this person slips up in any way with regards to leaving behind biometric data - bam.  Knight Errant (or more likely corporate goons) knocking on their door, roughing up contacts, etc.

It's hard to recover from something like that, so it encourages a healthy paranoia and a careful approach to things.  In fact, other runners might wonder why you're so paranoid, as you're too paranoid for their tastes.  And that's saying something, I think.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Consider a Negative Quality something that comes up, and in severity of consequence, in direct proportion to the amount of Karma you got for it.  25 points?  You'll be bumping into minor and major issues that test your loyalty to the corporation (if you're still loyal and they know that) very likely every run.  Or you might have to fight off a kill team (if they think you've gone rogue) every three or four runs.  Or you might have to scramble to cover up your link to the corp with a pretty severe frequency.

In Pananagutan, Suki has a Corporate SIN at both stages.  In the 2050's era, she hasn't been able to get her Shiawase SIN burned yet, so she's still on the run, and would be dodging a hitman or two every few runs.  By the 'present day' part of the game, she's worked long and hard to get a very high reputation for both getting things done and keeping it quiet while she does, and strove to attract the attention of a specific individual so she could be her 'company man', not one of a pool working for the company (EVO as well, in fact).  Nonetheless, she's got a Corporate SIN, which she keeps quiet, and if I keep writing it past the current story (yeah, still working on the next part) she'll have to manage the demands of loyalty to the corporation with the necessities of what's functionally a cover identity, all while still keeping most people in the dark about who she actually works for.

Make sure you have the background concept laid out as clear as you possibly can, then talk with your GM about whether Corporate SIN will be appropriate - and how he might think about bringing its issues into play.

As soon as this person slips up in any way with regards to leaving behind biometric data - bam.  Knight Errant (or more likely corporate goons) knocking on their door, roughing up contacts, etc.

It's hard to recover from something like that, so it encourages a healthy paranoia and a careful approach to things.  In fact, other runners might wonder why you're so paranoid, as you're too paranoid for their tastes.  And that's saying something, I think.

This is one way for the GM to go about it.  On the other hand, depending on who you are and what you do inside the corporation, I can see a certain amount of that information being restricted, or resulting in a 'no such information found'.  This, of course, presumes that you have some value to the corp ...

[Aranador]

In the game I ran, I pretty much had any time the runner wasn't extremely careful about things, their biometrics matching up to their SIN, and inquiries from the cops.  Basically, for this much free karma, your SIN shines right through unless you are super careful about things.  Fortunately my player was 'careful enough' that he was never linked to a crime, but he was for ever being summonsed to 'assist with inquiries' - luckily he was the 'face' and really good at bluffing.

[Cronstintein]

The problem with this is that it's really a NQ for the whole group because they also have to deal with the drawbacks w/o getting any of the karma.  If you send kill teams after the pc while he's with his friends then they also have to deal with it.  If the run has to have extra layers of paranoia attached, they too are affected.

The karma gains are so high that the GM really feels forced into using the hooks.  Unlike a mild allergy, which most gms can let slide 90% of the time.

[Namikaze]

Most of my players take lower-cost negative qualities, and maybe one medium or large negative quality.  None have taken the full 25 point SINner quality though - they go for the 15 if at all.  Part of the reason is just what Cronstintein just said: higher-cost negative qualities imply that the quality must be used more frequently or more forcefully.  As a GM, I know that if I don't take all of the negatives into account for all of the players, I'm not really making the cost to benefit ratio feel balanced, but if someone's only going to take one negative quality and someone else takes four, then the one negative quality should probably happen more frequently or have more of an impact on the game.

As far as whether or not it hurts the whole group - that's for the group to decide.  If the corporate runner has kill squads sent after them, the group should probably help the first time simply out of a lack of understanding the foe.  After the third or fourth time, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the group decides to just walk away.

[martinchaen]

I'm all for the SINner being a flavour thing, as opposed to a Karma beneficial quality. That way, your character can be a Corp-born loyalist or a criminal without the GM and players having to worry about taxes and "forced" retribution because a character forgot to have the team decker wipe his face off the corner store camera. But, I don't run (or play in) games that are super-dystopian, so I don't care for that level of paranoia. If that's your thing as a player or GM, the qualities as is certainly provide plenty of opportunities to mess things up.

[Reiper]

I'm all for the SINner being a flavour thing, as opposed to a Karma beneficial quality. That way, your character can be a Corp-born loyalist or a criminal without the GM and players having to worry about taxes and "forced" retribution because a character forgot to have the team decker wipe his face off the corner store camera. But, I don't run (or play in) games that are super-dystopian, so I don't care for that level of paranoia. If that's your thing as a player or GM, the qualities as is certainly provide plenty of opportunities to mess things up.

I may actually do that since, as Crons said, it is a NQ for the entire team. When I finish off the character I'll talk to the GM about having it purely as fluff but not taking the karma for the NQ.

[Prodigy]

For ideas, watch Burn Notice. That is my idea of a SINner. Even being burned, Michael runs into all kinds of stuff due to his identity.

[Cronstintein]

I ended up doing that (taking sinner as a backstory but not for karma) because he left that life behind.  It seemed abusive to take the karma and not pay the taxes.

[Novocrane]

Personally, I think any combination of qualities that provide 25 karma should be treated equally. If you take that onboard, then a Corporate SINner isn't going to be penalised any more than a widely prejudiced character, one with a handful of allergies, or code of honour & loss of confidence. The difference is that all their negative quality induced problems are going to come from their SIN.

[Aranador]

I cant really accept the 'its a penalty for everyone' argument too much.  Because the same can be said for a lot of other NQs.  Code of Honour can actively cause one player to impact the rest of the team.  A prejudice could start fights when talking was better.  An allergy can make one team member a burden rather than an asset.  The wrong addiction can shut down a character for an adventure - too bad if that was your rigger and you need them for this latest heist.  I am sure it wouldn't take much effort to find similar reasoning for most of the other NQs.

When you take an NQ - you have to either expect it to be an actual penalty, or you can expect it to be free karma.  Depends on your GM which.