Shadowrun Play > Rules and such

Spells and Powers sustaining / physical-astral plane

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anotherJack:
I apologize if this post isn't easy to understand, I'm french, so my english…

I've got a few questions about powers and spells sustained ;
Points :
- exclusives actions no longer exist in SR4
- in street magic there's a very clear exemple of a spirit who can use a power in physical plane, and so need to materialize to cast it, but not to sustain it, he can materialize himself, cast his power, and then go back to the astral plane while sustaining his power :


--- Quote ---Passive powers such as Astral Form, Energy Aura, or Materialization don’t require the use of services, they are assumed to be included with any other service that requires their use. Since Guard is a physical power, it requires the spirit to be physical in order to activate it (though not to sustain it). Therefore, a spirit ordered to use Guard on someone would need to use Materialize or Possession before it could do so, and both actions would only require one service (though it might immediately go back to astral plane while sustaining the Guard effect, depending on what other services it was performing at the time).
--- End quote ---

So a few questions about it :
1) If a spirit can sustain a power and go back to astral plane, can a spirit sustain a power while put "standby", in his metaplane ?
2) Can a mage do the same thing with his spells ? exemple : a mage throw a spell on the astral plane, and sustain it while going back to physical plane. Other exemple : a mage throw a spell on the physical plane and sustain it while projecting in the astral plane
3) Can a spell or power be sustained if the target shifts planes ? exemple : a mage goes dual, a spirit throw a mana power on his astral form, then the mage goes back physical, while the spirit still sustain the power.

And another question, more or less linked : it is specified that damages done to any of the two sides of a magician in astral projection affects both sides of the mage, his physical and astral body.
Is it still the same for healings and so ? if we cast a spell on the body of a mage while he's in astral projection, assuming that the spell can affect an astral form, will the spell applie on the mage's astral body ?

Kaarchin:
1) Il ne me semble pas avoir vu de contrexemple interdisant à un Esprit de continuer à soutenir un pouvoir depuis les Métaplans. Cependant en tant que MJ je pense que je ne l'autoriserait pas.
2) A priori rien n'empêche un Mage de soutenir un sort lancé sur un Plan à partir d'un autre. Mais il faudrait sans doute faire un jet de concentration comme lorsqu'un Mage prend des dégâts, est jeté par terre etc.
3) Là ça devient plus compliqué. Si le sort est lancé sur la forme astrale du Mage en projection lorsqu'il réintègre son corps sa forme astrale "disparait". Il n'est plus présent dans l'espace astrale donc le sort n'a plus de cible. De l'autre côté si un sort physique est lancé sur le Mage, lorsqu'il se projette le sort est toujours actif. Mais n'affecte toujours que son corps.

Des soins appliqués au corps du Mage soigneraient ses blessures physiques, qu'elles aient été infligés dans l'Astral ou le Physique. S'il existait un sort qui permette de soigner les blessures Étourdissantes il faudrait le lancer sur le forme astrale du Mage et non sur son corps (ce serait logiquement un sort Mana)
Un sort ne peut pas cibler ce qui n'est pas là, sauf dans le cas de magie rituelle. Donc un sort ne peut pas affecter la forme astrale d'un Mage en le lançant sur sa "forme physique".
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1) I do not remember seeing somewhere that a Spirit can't sustain a spell from the Metaplans. But as a GM i don't think i would allow it.
2) A priori nothing prevent a Magician to keep sustaining a power cast on a Plane when shifting. But she would most certainly have to make a concentration roll to avoid dropping it. Kind of like she takes damages, fall prone etc. (See ACore p184)
3) Here things become tricky. If the spell is cast on the Astral Form of the projecting Magician, when she return in her body her Astral Form "disappear". She is not in Astral Space anymore so the spell does no longer have a target, and fail. On the other hand if a Physical spell is cast on the Magician, when she project the spell is not affected. But the spell still affect only her body, not her Astral Form.

Healing the body of a projecting Magician would heal her physical wounds, whether they were suffered on the Astral of Physical Plane. If there were a spell that could heal Stun damages, it would had to be cast on the Astral Form of the Magician and not her body (i assume it would be a Mana Spell).
A Spell can not target something that is not there, except for Ritual Spellcasting, so a spell can not affect the Astral Form of a Magician by being cast on her "Physical Form".

Mooncrow:
Yay for bilingual people =)  I was trying to write up something that would be reasonably clear, but French is not one of the languages I do well with ;)  I believe that everything Kaarchin said is correct.

The_Gun_Nut:
Thank you for the bilingual reply.  Very kind of you.  :)

anotherJack:
No problem with english answers, I'm not good at writting it, but no problem in reading ^^

Thanks Kaarchin, I came to the same conclusions about sustaining a power while the spirit is in the metaplanes.
And okay for the 3). I thought that maybe a mana spell or power cast on the astral form of a projecting or dual mage could be sustained if he goes back to the physical plane, assuming the spell affects the target's mind, which doesn't disappear but simply goes from a plane to another. But it's one point to assume that a cast spell can be sustained on the plane he's been cast, and another to imagine that a spell cast can go sustained through planes.

About the two sides of a projecting magician, there's still some shadows : I don't undestand how you can on one hand use healing on the body and heal the body and the soul, and on the other hand you can't affect the astral form if you target the body ; the only way to explain it I find is : the healing spell cast on the body doesn't affect the astral form, but its consequences does, but then it must be the same for some other spells. And do you mean that mana spells or powers can't be cast on an "empty" body ? must it be considered as a non-living target ?

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Aucun problème avec les réponses en anglais. Chuis mauvais à l'écriture, pas à la lecture (et ça permet à tout le monde de participer)

Merci Kaarchin, j'arrivais aux mêmes conclusions sur le maintien depuis les métaplans : aucune interdiction, mais ça bouscule singulièrement le gameplay des pouvoirs d'esprits.
Okay pour le point 3). Je pensais qu'un sort mana ou un pouvoir lancé sur un mage en projection ou perception astrale pouvait être maintenu lorsqu'il réintégrait le plan physique, puisque le sort affecte l'esprit de la cible (ex : augmenter ou diminuer un attribut mental), qui ne disparaît pas mais passe simplement d'un plan à l'autre. Mais c'est effectivement une chose d'accepter qu'un sort puisse être maintenu sur le plan où il a été lancé pendant que son lanceur maintien le lien, et une autre d'imaginer qu'un sort maintenu puisse traverser les plans.

À propos des deux faces d'un magicien en projection, il y a toujours quelques zones d'ombres : je ne comprends pas comment tu peux d'un côté appliquer un sort de soin à la forme physique et voir les soins répercutés sur la forme astrale, et de l'autre ne pas pouvoir affecter la forme astrale en ciblant le corps ; la seule explication que je voie, ce serait que le sort de soin n'affecte pas la forme astrale, mais que ses conséquences le font, mais dans ce cas il doit en aller de même pour d'autres sorts. Et, est-ce que ça signifie qu'un sort ou pouvoir mana ne peut pas être lancé sur un corps "vide" ? est-ce qu'on doit le considérer comme une cible non vivante ?

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