[AJCarrington]

In fairness, you bring up a number of good points...I can't really debate them as I have no inside knowledge as they processes in place. CGL has acknowledged a number of the issues (JH some posted a couple of times on the blog last fall) and recent releases (Run Faster) seem to have benefited.

I would suggest that you'd have more impact by trying to approach Jason directly (or via PM) and engage that way. Or possibly reach out to some of them freelancers that frequent the board here. My $0.02

[Sendaz]

and engage that way....

Engage that way?

Eating a little crow?

Think Namikaze is right, someone is on the prowl.


Just teasing.

You know we luvz ya (in a totally platonic way, so don't get any ideas, we are watching you and we have Pepper Punch. )

[jim1701]

Like I said in another thread recently it is disappointing how errata is handled for Shadowrun considering how much more responsive the Battletech team is at handling their errata.

[Namikaze]

The german publisher is sadly the wrong one to rant at as those just can't give out most of the clarifications we need as all they can do is refer to CGL releases.

I'm not disagreeing with your overall assessment of how things are being handled, just to be clear.  I just wanted to point out that Pegasus Spiele is more than capable of making their own rules and such.  They have in the past, and they likely will in the future.  So saying they're the wrong people to rant at is incorrect.  Also, it might be wise for you to consider that Catalyst is a very small team that is taking on a very large project.  As such, you should temper your expectations a bit.  I feel there is room for improvement within Catalyst, and I think everyone that works with them would agree.  But things are also a LOT better than they have been in the past, and Catalyst is making steps in the right direction.

[adzling]

You are correct Nam, things are better than the imploding company that was within a hair's breadth of losing the Shadowrun license due to poor fiduciary and project management (i.e. gross negligence/ embezzlement).

However that is not saying much....

[NoxMortem]

I am aware of all that and I have lived and suffered with you through all the license holders since SR 2.0.

And about Pegasus Spiele: The official answer is that they try to avoid to make their own rules very much and that making their own rules is actually beyound what they are allowed/should do. If they changed stuff they usually sold it as official errata or fixes. That might have been less true with SR4 but holds very strongly with SR5.

I am fully aware of the small team size but an errata and FAQ every half year or even every year is not requested too much! It is ridiculous that we even have to discuss about this. I completly get that they might not be able to update the .pdfs or even ship a new version where the erratas are worked in as this requires way more time or even a lot of money and buyers. I am not even critizing the tons of errors they are making and that are completly avoidable (the first edition english .pdf release was a pure joke and we all know that) and even for newer releases they don't even try to layout stuff anymore for some parts but simply copy tables over artwork etc. I am not even critizing all the copy paste documents sold as new for SR5 which were all available for SR4 and very often still contain SR4 rules instead of the new SR5 ones. Something which should not be acceptable but actually happens all the time.

I can live with all of those stuff, problems and low quality for those things. I can live with all the tons of spelling errors, etc. What I can less play with are huge rule problems, not officially solveable because there simply is no one giving out official answers and as pointed out above a forum is the second worst way after private messages to do this. And we all have seen those PN clarifications and the dropbox shared text file for the Mission FAQ from freelancers which are handled as (semi-)official rulings

I do not think I request too much from CGL but erratas and FAQ would help so incredibly much in answering problems. It is not about finding house rules for those problems, any GM can do that. It is about finding what the official rules are really meaning and meant to be and this is very much important the second you leave your own table and sit on someone elses table or even worse begin to try to dicuss rules with others over the internet

All i want is one place with one FAQ and errata which can be treated as official rules for the real problems of SR. The mission FAQ is a very bad thing to take for this as it is in many fields very mission specific (which is fine as that is its purpose, but people mistreat it because there is no official up to date document)

[Namikaze]

I'm of the opinion that you're just trying to troll at this point, Nox.  So with that I'll give you one more piece of free advice, and let you go back to your bridge.

All i want is one place with one FAQ and errata which can be treated as official rules for the real problems of SR. The mission FAQ is a very bad thing to take for this as it is in many fields very mission specific (which is fine as that is its purpose, but people mistreat it because there is no official up to date document)

If you want one place with one FAQ, and one errata to rule them all...  stop playing the German edition at all.  Pegasus Spiele has absolutely made their own rules, and changed a LOT of the English book in very key places.  Pick an edition and stick with it.  If they're telling you they don't want to change rules and such, then they're blowing smoke up your skirt.  They wrote their own books on Germany, which included adding a shit ton of dragons *eyeroll*, and they changed every single edition they've ever touched, including 5th edition.  So if they're feeding you that line, and you're believing it...  well then they got one over on you.

Anyway, you've got 3 posts on this forum, and all three have been disparaging and inflammatory.  This is the kind of behavior that I expect from a troll, and I don't like to feed trolls.  I strongly advise anyone else who reads this to not feed them either.

[NoxMortem]

I don't see how my post count in this forum matters and I am not trying to troll. I consider your harsh answer as very rude and impolite, but that might just be you.

How does anything of what you have written matter to my post and the point that the errata requires an update after over a year at all? I would like to less discuss publishers and more the missing errata/faq.

[AJCarrington]

and engage that way....

Engage that way?

Eating a little crow?

Think Namikaze is right, someone is on the prowl.

Just teasing.

You know we luvz ya (in a totally platonic way, so don't get any ideas, we are watching you and we have Pepper Punch. )

Always happy to step up for a beating...

For the record "that way" referred to directing the comments/requests directly to those who might have some ability to affect an answer...as opposed to...us 

[Lucean]

If you want one place with one FAQ, and one errata to rule them all...  stop playing the German edition at all.  Pegasus Spiele has absolutely made their own rules, and changed a LOT of the English book in very key places.  Pick an edition and stick with it.  If they're telling you they don't want to change rules and such, then they're blowing smoke up your skirt.  They wrote their own books on Germany, which included adding a shit ton of dragons *eyeroll*, and they changed every single edition they've ever touched, including 5th edition.  So if they're feeding you that line, and you're believing it...  well then they got one over on you.

I don't know what you're talking about. Pegasus Spiele didn't have the license for the earlier editions of Shadowrun, that was FanPro. And it was them who did create a good amount of custom stuff that was said to have "tipped the balance".

[Medicineman]

that was FanPro. And it was them who did create a good amount of custom stuff that was said to have "tipped the balance".

Yes I've seen the Uberstuff in 3rd Ed . It was a can of Worms especially for GMs.
But Hey, thats like 10 (or so) Years ago .
Schwamm drüber (let bygones be bygones )
Pegasus started translating Shadowrun with the SR4A Edition (SR4 was still under FanPro )
And  everything they change or correct they contact CGL  to get a 'Go for it' first.
The only chapter they write without clearance from CGL first  is German only content (like the Berlin Sourcebook or Brot und Spiele a Sourcebook about German Urban Brawl or the German Tourguide).

 with a German Dance
Medicineman

[NoxMortem]

In fairness, you bring up a number of good points...I can't really debate them as I have no inside knowledge as they processes in place. CGL has acknowledged a number of the issues (JH some posted a couple of times on the blog last fall) and recent releases (Run Faster) seem to have benefited.

I would suggest that you'd have more impact by trying to approach Jason directly (or via PM) and engage that way. Or possibly reach out to some of them freelancers that frequent the board here. My $0.02

Thank you, I did that after your suggestion.

Sadly I am just not sure if I will get an answer now after that whole namikaze-flamewar-bullshit which directed this thread 180° from what I initially wanted. But let's see, at least Jasons initial response was very factual and nice so I still have high hopes.

Edit: And for those who still think I am just trolling or flaming or ranting without any substantial because they maybe have simply forgotten the blog post to which the quotation of Hardys comment my first post referred to can be reread here:
http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2014/02/shadowrun-fifth-edition-errata-now-available/

And this forum post:
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/rules-and-such/(sr5)-rules-clarifications-and-faq/msg213511/#msg213511

So the points I mention about the errata updates, pdf updates and FAQ are not just made up or wish-thinking it was something I waited for since the posts were published.

And after Jasons PN about my initial post had been some food for thought I might want to apologize here as well if got on someones wrong side with that. So sorry, can we now please put that aside and move on to the original point of discussion: The erratas and the way rule clarifications are handed out.

[FastJack]

A poster personally attacked another on this topic and has been dealt with. Please refrain from personally attacking your fellow posters, either in a topic or within personal messages.

[Tycho]

The german publisher is sadly the wrong one to rant at as those just can't give out most of the clarifications we need as all they can do is refer to CGL releases.

I'm not disagreeing with your overall assessment of how things are being handled, just to be clear.  I just wanted to point out that Pegasus Spiele is more than capable of making their own rules and such.  They have in the past, and they likely will in the future.  So saying they're the wrong people to rant at is incorrect.  Also, it might be wise for you to consider that Catalyst is a very small team that is taking on a very large project.  As such, you should temper your expectations a bit.  I feel there is room for improvement within Catalyst, and I think everyone that works with them would agree.  But things are also a LOT better than they have been in the past, and Catalyst is making steps in the right direction.

This is just not correct: Every rule change by Pegasus in the German books is approved by CGL as an official errata! I have worked with Pegasus on the some rule corrections and I have documents with Jason Hardys personal approval of changes made in the German Translation to War!

So just to put it clear out there:
The German authors compile a list with all the things they find unclear or broken. In English With Page References etc.send it to CGL for approval, which is given most of the time and then the Rules are changed in the German Books. It is more or less the case that Pegasus provides almost fully finished Errata Documents to CGL, but these never get released by CGL. That is the status-quo since Pegasus has the Shadowrun Licence

So If everything you should stop play the US Version of Shadowrun and start buying the German books, because these are the ones that are up-to-date (they also have professional proofreading, just saying...).

[JM_Hardy]

You're incorrect on a couple of things. First, some of the SR5 errata generated through dialogue with Pegasus and other licensees (namely Black Book) has already been released to the public. So saying it never gets released is wrong. Second, I know it's really popular to pile on the proofing and editing process, but we use professionals as well. I know the follow-up question will be "then why do errors occur?", and all I will say at the moment is there is not one answer to that question. If all was simple, then everything would look much different than it does. Third, calling the errata documents provided by Pegasus "fully finished" ignores the questions that need to be answered, the edits that need to be made, the changes that need to be generated, and the layout that needs to be done to those documents to prepare them for release. Calling them "fully finished" is not accurate. Many hours of work need to be spent on those documents.

And finally, given that this has been a heated conversation, if everyone could work their best to not re-heat it, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

Jason H.