[All4BigGuns]

Is that all you can say? House rule it? Really?!

Not everyone sees "house rule it" as a viable option because they want to stick as close the the rules as possible. The compromise allows any who do want to give it a chance or simply do not like the errata (honestly I'm in the first part of that) to do so whereas errata cuts out that option.

[Michael Chandra]

I'm sorry, how is deliberately ignoring errata sticking as close to the rules as possible?

[ZeConster]

Is that all you can say? House rule it? Really?!

It's a better argument than you have been offering. Your "compromise" would make it so a GM who wants Mystic Adepts to not be broken OP would have to veto a lot of builds or houserule a nerf that should be the official rule to begin with - neither of which will go over well. The opposite - allowing GMs to houserule a boost - is a far better choice.

[All4BigGuns]

So instead of having things set up in a fair manner, you want your way to be the rule so you can force people to play your way.

[ZeConster]

How is your way "fair"?
EDIT: Really, it feels like we're going in circles here. You keep insisting that it's "fair" to force a GM to houserule things or veto the crap out of Mystic Adept builds if they don't want the broken system where Mystic Adepts are way too easily made incredibly overpowered, even though your usual response to a GM having problems with players is that they should just give in. Not only that, but if the "rule of the land" is that it's 2 Karma per PP, that means many GMs won't even know about the alternative until someone already has an overpowered Mystic Adept in play, and it is way harder to take something away from a player than it is to give it to them. There is nothing fair about pushing this burden onto GMs.

[All4BigGuns]

How is your way "fair"?

Already been explained and ignored.

Try looking at things from a perspective outside your bias.

[ZeConster]

How is your way "fair"?

Already been explained and ignored.

Try looking at things from a perspective outside your bias.

How about you try being civil.
EDIT: I mean, really: I'm asking you for your actual arguments, since I appear to have overlooked them, while you completely disregard mine. Meanwhile, you talk about bias when your bias is that the GM is wrong until proven otherwise. If they made 2 Karma the standard rules and 5 Karma the Missions rules, and a GM came to the forum to ask what to do about a drastically overpowered player, you'd tell them to shut up and give in to the player, not point them to the Missions rules as an alternative.

[Lurker37]

To sum all up after reading all 12 page.(german book help a lot)

- AT CHARGEN, Mystic Adept gain PP by buying them with karma(5 karma/1PP) up to their Magic rating.
- Mystic Adept CAN'T buy PP with karma after chargen.
- Mystic Adept DON"T gain free PP when increase their magic.
- The only way Mystic Adept gain PP after chargen is, when initiation, they had to choose PP instead of metamagic.

Did I miss something?

So a Mystic Adept starts with Magic 6 or permanently loses (6-Starting Magic) PP?

That's just not acceptable to my players - they've looked at this thread and declared we will not be transitioning to 5th Ed. 

[ZeConster]

Don't Mystic Adepts in 4e have to split their Magic rating between Magician (spellcasting and conjuring) and Adept (Power Points)?
Plus it's quite easy to start with 6 Magic in 5e compared to 4e (and if you don't mind spending 49 of your 50 maximum chargen Karma, you could even start as a Mystic Adept with 7 Magic and 7 PP - note to self: check what a build like that can do).

[Dracain]

To sum all up after reading all 12 page.(german book help a lot)

- AT CHARGEN, Mystic Adept gain PP by buying them with karma(5 karma/1PP) up to their Magic rating.
- Mystic Adept CAN'T buy PP with karma after chargen.
- Mystic Adept DON"T gain free PP when increase their magic.
- The only way Mystic Adept gain PP after chargen is, when initiation, they had to choose PP instead of metamagic.

Did I miss something?

So a Mystic Adept starts with Magic 6 or permanently loses (6-Starting Magic) PP?

That's just not acceptable to my players - they've looked at this thread and declared we will not be transitioning to 5th Ed. 

It works on the priority system, so they can start with magic 6, but no, you seem to have misunderstood the system.  At chargen a Mystic can spend karma up to their starting magic rating at 5 karma per PP, starting magic rating being determined by your priority, among other things.  Outside of chargen, the only was to gain PP is through initiation, taking a PP instead of a metamagic.  What this means is that if you do not pick up PP at chargen, you cannot just buy it with karma later, you have to initiate like normal, so people often buy lots of PP at chargen.  This has made MAs much more worthwhile compared to 4e, where they were rather weak, without making them too powerful. 

I suggest you take a look at the hot patch rules, as well as check out the fifth edition book.  It really is quite good, but the flaws tend to stick out more because the other stuff is all REALLY good. 

[RHat]

So a Mystic Adept starts with Magic 6 or permanently loses (6-Starting Magic) PP?

That's just not acceptable to my players - they've looked at this thread and declared we will not be transitioning to 5th Ed. 

It's kind of like that, but what you have to understand is that it's actually a very freeing system for Mystic Adepts as compared to SR4; you get your full Magic towards both the Magic side and, should you spend the Karma, the Adept side - you can very, very easily start with Magic 6 for ALL purposes and 6 Power Points.

The final errata might bring about a more complex solution, however.

[Jimmy_Pvish]

To sum all up after reading all 12 page.(german book help a lot)

- AT CHARGEN, Mystic Adept gain PP by buying them with karma(5 karma/1PP) up to their Magic rating.
- Mystic Adept CAN'T buy PP with karma after chargen.
- Mystic Adept DON"T gain free PP when increase their magic.
- The only way Mystic Adept gain PP after chargen is, when initiation, they had to choose PP instead of metamagic.

Did I miss something?

So a Mystic Adept starts with Magic 6 or permanently loses (6-Starting Magic) PP?

That's just not acceptable to my players - they've looked at this thread and declared we will not be transitioning to 5th Ed. 

No. it's not lose,

it's somethings you don't have because you're not spend your priory to earn them at chargen.

- Non-Awaken characters don't have magic because they're not spend priory to earn them at chargen.
They're not permanently "lose" magic.

- Adept characters can't shoot fireball because they're not spend priory to earn them at chargen.
They're not permanently "lose" ability to shoot fireball.

- Aspected Magician can't cast magic outside of their field because they're not spend priory to earn them at chargen.
They're not permanently "lose" ability to cast other magic.

- Mystic Adept with less than 6 magic can't have more than magic PP because they're not spend priory to earn them at chargen.
They're not permanently "lose" PP.

Everything has a price, chummer.

[Dracain]

To sum all up after reading all 12 page.(german book help a lot)

- AT CHARGEN, Mystic Adept gain PP by buying them with karma(5 karma/1PP) up to their Magic rating.
- Mystic Adept CAN'T buy PP with karma after chargen.
- Mystic Adept DON"T gain free PP when increase their magic.
- The only way Mystic Adept gain PP after chargen is, when initiation, they had to choose PP instead of metamagic.

Did I miss something?

So a Mystic Adept starts with Magic 6 or permanently loses (6-Starting Magic) PP?

That's just not acceptable to my players - they've looked at this thread and declared we will not be transitioning to 5th Ed. 

No. it's not lose,

it's somethings you don't have because you're not spend your priory to earn them at chargen.

- Non-Awaken characters don't have magic because they're not spend priory to earn them at chargen, they're not permanently "lose" magic.

- Adept characters can't shoot fireball because they're not spend priory to earn them at chargen, they're not permanently "lose" ability to shoot fireball.

- Aspected Magician can't cast magic outside of their field because they're not spend priory to earn them at chargen, they're not permanently "lose" ability to cast other magic.

- Mystic Adept with 6- magic can't have more than magic PP because they're not spend priory to earn them at chargen, they're not permanently "lose" PP.

Everything has a price, chummer.

You said it better then I ever could.  I'm just quoting this for the truth of it. 

[Michael Chandra]

So a Mystic Adept starts with Magic 6 or permanently loses (6-Starting Magic) PP?

That's just not acceptable to my players - they've looked at this thread and declared we will not be transitioning to 5th Ed. 

Given how Mystic Adepts are completely worthless in SR4, I really don't get this mindset. The HotPatch merely nerves Mystic Adepts from THE Magic User to A Competitive Magic User. Compared to SR4's "you're worthless and you know it", they jumped bounds ahead. Why would Mystic Adepts becoming way better rather than replacing all Magicians altogether be an argument not to play SR5?

[spuwdsda]

Perhaps I have missed it, but what I would like is analysis on how these characters develop with Karma - rather than out-of-chargen.

How does a MysAd with 200 karma compare with his peers? Does the synergy of the hybrid make them OP in a long term campaign?