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[SR5] House Rules

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incrdbil

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« Reply #105 on: <10-25-13/0115:27> »


If Edge was involved, Reagents wouldn't be.  And a Force 4 Fireball with 10 successes is a LOT less powerful than a Force 14 Fireball with the same.  DV 21 AP -14 versus DV 11 AP -4, having effect over 14 meters instead of 4, and a big difference to the chances for ignition for anything caught inside.

I did phrase that poorly,its really not force 14 with force 4+ 10 net hits;  but the force 4 fireball with 10 reagents and 10 successes ( magic skill, combat specialization, spell focus, aid sorcery) is a heck of a punch. The way we interpreted it, at the time, which I think is in error,  all of the net hits, including the ones to beat the threshold  were added to the damage.
The rationale we used was that the threshold for area spells only determines scatter, not success of the spell, but in further review, that makes for a goofy damage boost between 2 successes and three, so indeed it should have only been 11 DV, not 14. Whoops.

I'm wondering if  a cap on just how many reagents can be blown would be a bit rough on low magic rating casters who need the crutch to get by.  So limiting the high end abuse without hurting the low end would be my concern.

Bach_The_Fox

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« Reply #106 on: <10-25-13/0200:32> »
Quote
The test is like that for grenades (p. 181):
a Spellcasting + Magic [Force] (3) Test with scatter of 2D6
meters. Unlike grenades, you get to add your net hits on
this test to the Damage Value of the spell, but only if you
beat the threshold

Yeah, net hits would be those over the threshold. So 11DV, AP -4. Rough, but not even as nasty as a grenade.

A low magic mage has a lot of problems; a cap on reagents isn't going to do much one way or the other.  If they have a really low magic, they're going to have a similarly low drain pool and spellcasting pool. Force 1 hurts a bit, but at force 2, they're not getting much more than 4 hits anyways.


RHat

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« Reply #107 on: <10-25-13/0334:27> »


If Edge was involved, Reagents wouldn't be.  And a Force 4 Fireball with 10 successes is a LOT less powerful than a Force 14 Fireball with the same.  DV 21 AP -14 versus DV 11 AP -4, having effect over 14 meters instead of 4, and a big difference to the chances for ignition for anything caught inside.

I did phrase that poorly,its really not force 14 with force 4+ 10 net hits;  but the force 4 fireball with 10 reagents and 10 successes ( magic skill, combat specialization, spell focus, aid sorcery) is a heck of a punch. The way we interpreted it, at the time, which I think is in error,  all of the net hits, including the ones to beat the threshold  were added to the damage.
The rationale we used was that the threshold for area spells only determines scatter, not success of the spell, but in further review, that makes for a goofy damage boost between 2 successes and three, so indeed it should have only been 11 DV, not 14. Whoops.

I'm wondering if  a cap on just how many reagents can be blown would be a bit rough on low magic rating casters who need the crutch to get by.  So limiting the high end abuse without hurting the low end would be my concern.

Per definition, only hits past the threshold count as net hits. 
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #108 on: <10-25-13/0831:13> »
By the way, don't forget a caster can use Reagents to restrict the Force of a spell as well. They could overcast a Force 12 Fireball with Reagents to make sure they only score 6 hits max and thus take Stun drain. The drain damage taken doesn't change, though, so they'll likely still go unconscious or be heavily injured for a few hours.

As for the Sustaining Foci trick: Have you considered using a few mana barriers and astrally-perceiving spirits? The downside is, after all, that you have to spend money on every cast, of which some might not roll high enough, and they have to turn it off occasionally to not draw attention. Those are at your disposal as GM without houserules.
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Crunch

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« Reply #109 on: <10-25-13/0840:11> »
I agree that reagent limits are practical. One force 14 Fireball resisted as if it were a force 4 convinced me of that.

Don't reagents just change the limit, having no effect on other force-dependent aspects (IE, the base damage or radius of a Fireball)?

Yup, they're fine in combat. The hassle of having them ready while you're casting is also a (minor) limiting factor.

He could mean the guy just got 10 successes; easily possible with Edge.

If Edge was involved, Reagents wouldn't be.  And a Force 4 Fireball with 10 successes is a LOT less powerful than a Force 14 Fireball with the same.  DV 21 AP -14 versus DV 11 AP -4, having effect over 14 meters instead of 4, and a big difference to the chances for ignition for anything caught inside.

That's more true of some spells than others, notable direct combat spells benefit from high force less than indirect.

Bach_The_Fox

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« Reply #110 on: <10-25-13/0846:24> »
By the way, don't forget a caster can use Reagents to restrict the Force of a spell as well. They could overcast a Force 12 Fireball with Reagents to make sure they only score 6 hits max and thus take Stun drain. The drain damage taken doesn't change, though, so they'll likely still go unconscious or be heavily injured for a few hours.

As for the Sustaining Foci trick: Have you considered using a few mana barriers and astrally-perceiving spirits? The downside is, after all, that you have to spend money on every cast, of which some might not roll high enough, and they have to turn it off occasionally to not draw attention. Those are at your disposal as GM without houserules.

Ja, of course. But I don't want to be obnoxious and have them all over the place. There's Astral mages disenchanting too - but I know my players well enough that having that happen too frequently will cause a revolt, heh.

Spirits can't do anything to foci or sustained spells, correct?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #111 on: <10-25-13/0855:23> »
No, but they can notice them so a Watcher spirit might see someone walking around with sustained spells and give the mage at HQ a headsup something's possiby wrong.
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incrdbil

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« Reply #112 on: <10-25-13/1353:18> »
By the way, don't forget a caster can use Reagents to restrict the Force of a spell as well. They could overcast a Force 12 Fireball with Reagents to make sure they only score 6 hits max and thus take Stun drain. The drain damage taken doesn't change, though, so they'll likely still go unconscious or be heavily injured for a few hours.

Thank you. I'll save that that for a few NPC's as a last ditch attack.

RHat

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« Reply #113 on: <10-25-13/1359:58> »
By the way, don't forget a caster can use Reagents to restrict the Force of a spell as well. They could overcast a Force 12 Fireball with Reagents to make sure they only score 6 hits max and thus take Stun drain. The drain damage taken doesn't change, though, so they'll likely still go unconscious or be heavily injured for a few hours.

Thank you. I'll save that that for a few NPC's as a last ditch attack.

...  Dude, that's like a TPK in a can.  If you get the 6 hits, that's DV15, -12AP, plus fire effect, and you can't dodge at all.
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #114 on: <10-25-13/1402:57> »
Of course many NPCs would only have like 4 Magic so would be overcasting on Force 8. Add using a reroll with Edge to make sure the thing doesn't scatter.
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incrdbil

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« Reply #115 on: <10-25-13/1844:40> »
By the way, don't forget a caster can use Reagents to restrict the Force of a spell as well. They could overcast a Force 12 Fireball with Reagents to make sure they only score 6 hits max and thus take Stun drain. The drain damage taken doesn't change, though, so they'll likely still go unconscious or be heavily injured for a few hours.

Thank you. I'll save that that for a few NPC's as a last ditch attack.

...  Dude, that's like a TPK in a can.  If you get the 6 hits, that's DV15, -12AP, plus fire effect, and you can't dodge at all.

Someday I'll need probably something on that level to get there attention after a bit of advancement.  The party tank would probably have to use some edge, but could survive that, if a bit crispy. I figure an NPC at that desperate point may be struggling for 6 successes if there are wound penalties and such in play.

RHat

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« Reply #116 on: <10-25-13/2134:00> »
By the way, don't forget a caster can use Reagents to restrict the Force of a spell as well. They could overcast a Force 12 Fireball with Reagents to make sure they only score 6 hits max and thus take Stun drain. The drain damage taken doesn't change, though, so they'll likely still go unconscious or be heavily injured for a few hours.

Thank you. I'll save that that for a few NPC's as a last ditch attack.

...  Dude, that's like a TPK in a can.  If you get the 6 hits, that's DV15, -12AP, plus fire effect, and you can't dodge at all.

Someday I'll need probably something on that level to get there attention after a bit of advancement.  The party tank would probably have to use some edge, but could survive that, if a bit crispy. I figure an NPC at that desperate point may be struggling for 6 successes if there are wound penalties and such in play.

Yeah, but think about it for a second:  12 meter spread, probably hitting most if not all of the team.  If the tank, so far as that notion really works in Shadowrun, needs Edge to survive, isn't everyone else screwed?
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incrdbil

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« Reply #117 on: <10-25-13/2148:22> »


Yeah, but think about it for a second:  12 meter spread, probably hitting most if not all of the team.  If the tank, so far as that notion really works in Shadowrun, needs Edge to survive, isn't everyone else screwed?

I'm not out to reckless and idily TPK the team, but every now and then, tossing a severe lethality risk at the right target keeps characters on their toes, and enhances players experience in the game knowing the GM isn't coddling them, skewing things so there is no genuine threat or risk out there.  And it gives them a lasting memory. "So that mage gave us his best. He tossed a spell so powerful, I don't know how he survived it. It nearly put him into a coma, and only be burning every reagent he had did he avoid it from cooking his brain to mush.  If he had  put it a few meters back, most of us would just be ashes on the ground.  But he had Bubbles, toughest darn Troll I ever saw breathing down his neck.  He knew that in a few seconds, he'd be on top of him, and it would all be over. So he dropped it on him, hoping that even if the spell didn't go quite where he wanted, he would take him down. The fireball  fragged our drones, a couple of spirits just ran back home extra crispy. But Bubbles..somehow took it. Yes he was burned, his skin scarred, his beautiful ponytail gone and the bright pink ribbons just ashy fragments, but he was still standing. He struggled over in pain, and the axe came down..and we all lived to get our pay. Bubbles spent quite a while with the streetdoc, but he's still running with us."

Godwyn

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« Reply #118 on: <10-28-13/1224:09> »
Two main houserules our group is using, that I am getting to fully see in action and evaluate as the campaign is progressing.

Payment:  Add street cred as a multiplier on the pay scale.  Not sure if there should be a cap for it, as it may get out of hand, but the group is only around 30 karma currently. 

Technomancers:  Adjust priority down 1 step.  (IE. Spend B to get Technomancer A).

As there is now both a techno and a decker in the group, I finally get to evaluate that change alongside its fair comparison.  So far, it has not seemed to push the techno better than the decker.  They both do different things well.

The problem with Mystic Adepts is not in their power with magic, but that they seem to be the absolute best route to do a lot of other roles well.  Best hacker possible, mysad.  Best out of chargen?  Also a mysad.  Fastest character out of chargen?  Also a mystic adept.  Pretty much whatever niche they pick, except mage, they seem to be the best at.  Granted, I have not had enough in game experience with them to see if it holds up in actual play.  The one mysad in our game was trying to be a mage, and disappointed with his success at it.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #119 on: <10-28-13/1239:52> »
Probably want to cap the Street Cred factor on something like 50% of the remaining multipliers, and reduce it with Notoriety to encourage professionality.
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