[Lumen]

A little bit of explanation about my players before I get to the needing advice parts.  First off it's a huge group 7-8 players, most of which have over 20 years rpg experience.  This is their first game with SR4 but they are very, very clever and it did not take long for them to find all the nasty tricks to make their characters as powerful as possible.  Also despite me reminding them several times, they continue to loot pretty much everything that isn't nailed down, including cutting ware out of fallen enemies.

Now on to the problem at hand.  Last session they had a wetwork job from a Mob Johnson.  As usual they removed all the ware from the target and brought the Johnson a garbage bag full of goo as proof they killed him.  Obviously the Johnson found this completely unacceptable, especially because the ware was what he was really after.  The face tries to "renegotiate" by basically blackmailing the Johnson to pay them double for the ware.  Knowing their reputation the Johnson planted a few bombs in/near a few of the teams homes but instead of playing ball or even trying pursue further negotiations what do they do?  Immediately attack the Johnson, end up killing him and the 10 guys he brought with him.  The bombs were tied to Mr. J's biomonitor and immediately detonated.  The team scatters and the first thing they do once they've skipped town is start planning to take down The Entire Mob Family!  All eighty-some family members and hundreds of known associates...

Here's where I need some advice, to make sure I'm not just being butt hurt cause the PCs don't play how I'd like them to.  Now if you were the head of a Mob family would you just it slide?  My first reaction is to have squads of goons beat them with bats and dump them in a river. 

However the last thing I want to do turn this into a me vs. them game.  It doesn't sound fun at all.  Any advice on how to handle appropriate repercussions without going over board? 

[Crunch]

The basic question is what style of game do they want to play and what style of game you want to run. If they want to play an over the top, amoral, big action monty haul game and you'd rather play a grittier, more realistic, more atmospheric game with real consequences then there will be a problem unless a compromise can be reached.

My suggestion is take a while to think about what parts of the game you like, and how far you're willing to go as a GM. Then have a discussion with the group about what seems problematic to you, what you think the in universe consequences would be and what they'd like to do going forward. Realize going in that the issue is not that your idea of the game is better or that they're playing it wrong, simply that you all need to be on the same page to make sure everyone is having fun.

If you can't reach a point in discussion where the game you're willing to run matches with the game they'd like to play then it may be time to step down as GM see if one of the players wants to take over and moving on that way.

On the other hand it may be enough simply to explain that, while SR has fantasy elements, a lot of the tropes of the medieval fantasy rpg - like killing everyone and looting the bodies- have consequences that they simply can't avoid no matter hoq hard they've min maxed their characters. Regardless of how "optimized" the players are (and SR4 is notoriously bad for rewarding agressive min maxing) putting the resources a Mob Syndicate or major police agency has at their disposal against the players will eventually result in a TPK.

In any case be sure to be honest and up front. In my expereince no amount of GM escalation can change player behavior, but often a friendly conversation can.

[ZeConster]

Question: why the heck would a Johnson hire them to steal someone's ware under the guise of assassination when they have a reputation for looting ware from their enemies?
Anyway, putting aside the issue of "there will be consequences if you steal ware from people's corpses, like a bad reputation or - more importantly - the cops freaking out about magic users apparently stealing ware from people's corpses", I think their reaction of deciding to kill the guy that planted bombs in their homes makes perfect sense - deciding to take on a mob family, not so much. It is far more logical for them to flee to another city.

[Shaktari]

   Crunch has a very good point, figure out what style of shadow run you are playing or want to play as a group and then go from there before you start throwing out retaliation.  I started with a group of people who played D&D as well and they couldn't grasp the concept of the power structure in shadow run.

  Also don't forget groups get reputations, if they have a reputation for stealing every thing on a  run who is going to hire them for a subtle snatch and grab when the johnson know they are going to steal everything not nailed down. There goes any subtlety. If they are cutting people up are other runners going to run with them? would you run with a person you knew was eyeballing your cyberware trying to figure out how much they could get for it. 

  Of course my question is when do they have time to do all this? If they are breaking in some where they only ahve a limited time to get in and out before the big guns show up? more importantly surveillance is every where how are they not getting spotted? or accidentally picking up things that can easily traced back to them?

[Belker]

I think you can still make a game of this, but the campaign has just shifted into an example of asymmetrical warfare with the runners on one side and the Mob family in question on the other.

First off, there is no way I can see that the mob boss can let them walk away from this; he or she will lose too much face and prestige, and the competitors out there (the other Mafia families, the yakuza, the Triads, etc.) will start moving in if they perceive weakness.

Come to think of it, which mob did they piss off? The precise nature of the response will differ a bit - for example, a yakuza oyuban or Mafia don may pull in reinforcements from their (very large) parent and affiliated organizations. Vory gangsters will likely opt for a more direct and personal approach, probably something involving vice grips, blow torches and the character's reproductive organs.

The thing about big criminal organizations is that they will also have allies - and not all of them will be wise guys and street enforcers. Cops and members of the DA's office will be on the payroll. They'll have their hooks into various corporations at differing levels, and may actually own some smaller local corps outright. Higher level politicos might owe something to the capo as well.

So the characters should expect to see their names posted up by the local law enforcement as "terrorists" wanted in conjunction with all those bombings. Their fake IDs will start getting burned just as word goes out among the forger and fake ID vendors to cut them off, which at the very least will force them to more expensive to maintain fake identities. Known associates (high loyalty contacts, dependents, etc.) will have the heat turned up on them - perhaps not killed outright, but at the least discouraged from working with the characters. Bounties will be placed on their heads, both open and among the underground.

Oh, and the mob boss can hire shadowrunners of his or her own to supplement these forces. And don't forget paracritters....

Now, this doesn't mean the end of the game. The characters can try turning to other criminal organizations for protection, or an alliance. This could result in a tense war between the criminal organizations that eventually pulls in law enforcement, but might succeed in hitting a point where "mutually assured destruction" becomes less desirable to the mob than cutting a deal.

You could also find ways of dangling the alternative of escape to some other locale, possibly overseas, which likely won't stop the lethal response of the mobsters, but would likely attenuate it somewhat. This could be coupled with the alliance above - for example, if you're fleeing the Mafia, cutting a deal with the Yakuza in exchange for safe passage to Neo-Tokyo might be worthwhile.

Or they could cut a deal with a dragon. 

Either way, it's going to get bloody, and it would not be excessive for one or more PCs to go down. They poked the bear with a stick, and the bear is REALLY angry.

Edited to add: the points up-thread about talking with the players, and explaining that the D&D/heroic fantasy tropes don't apply, is excellent advice.

[ZeConster]

Or they could cut a deal with a dragon. 

Whoa whoa WHOA! Let's not get hasty, here - suicide is still a perfectly valid option.

[Lumen]

@Crunch:  I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head.  Obviously the players and I have different ideas on what kind of game we want/are playing.

Or they could cut a deal with a dragon. 

Either way, it's going to get bloody, and it would not be excessive for one or more PCs to go down. They poked the bear with a stick, and the bear is REALLY angry.

Edited to add: the points up-thread about talking with the players, and explaining that the D&D/heroic fantasy tropes don't apply, is excellent advice.

@Belker: I had thought of letting this vendetta take over the whole campaign but it makes the months I spent working on my actual plot line a huge waste of time.  Either that or I somehow manage to squeeze my plot line in between their rampages...

Oh and I forgot to mention one of the PCs is a drake so the only deal they'll be making with any dragons is along the lines of, "Of course you can have the drake, please don't eat us!"

[Belker]

Oh and I forgot to mention one of the PCs is a drake so the only deal they'll be making with any dragons is along the lines of, "Of course you can have the drake, please don't eat us!"

Where's the problem? 

[Lumen]

Oh and I forgot to mention one of the PCs is a drake so the only deal they'll be making with any dragons is along the lines of, "Of course you can have the drake, please don't eat us!"

Where's the problem? 

I can't see any   I like your style sir.

[Chrona]

If they want to make the entire game about taking the mod down and you decide to go that way, then fine. But they should expect the mob to fight back in ways other than bombs and open combat.
All that ware theyre used to stealing? No ones buying anymore, their contacts for it have dried up, those that havent stopped talking to them out of fear of concrete shoes will staunchly refuse to help mediate selling stolen goods and ware.
All the things they steal seem to have KE knocking on their door much much more frequently, putting the pressure on them. Finally, if the whole time is spent trying to take down the mod, their income is going to shrivel up and die.

Your original plot could be used to fund their vendetta, or you could add a part to your campaign where the Plot Johnsons would like to take the mob down a few pegs, so help the runners with the stain on their rep and selling gear.

[a very angery werefox]

wow your game seems to have taken the same wrong turn one of mine did. read my post a page back an learn from it. maybe it will help you .

[Silence]

You realize the dragon will take the drake, the sell the rest of the team to the highest bidder, right?