[Michael Chandra]

Vehicle and Weapon modifications are complex rules that do not necessarily fit within the Core book, just like Unwired mentioned "no you can't copy programs until you hack them and then they degrade". Of course there are rules missing on repair and we do need clarifications on many matters, but Riggers received not just vehicles and drones, but also control rigs and RCCs.

And ware and Magic rules are far from complete as well.

[calaen]

So hold on, you're going to justify with control rigs and RCCs?  Let me give my brain a moment to process this.  The control rig.  The piece that requires a sentence or three.  The RCC.  The piece that is basically "This is a fancy remote control that provides you with a control network for your drones."  Basic functionality, sure.  Cool, I'm good with that - needed to be done, was entirely too easy for the groups decker to also dabble in decking before.  Don't justify a scarcity of information with it.

I get that I need to be patient, I really do.  Would it have killed them to post something along the lines of "btw, you can increase armor to X value" to go with the gun drone mounts?  Or "btw, here is a pilot/sensor upgrade price list.  Don't get carried away, there'll be more in <insert title name here.>"  I'm not asking for a dozen fragging pages, I'm asking that my rigger have the simple pleasure of doing more than mounting a giant fragging gun on his bloody drone.

Personally, I'm content with the '500 pages?  yeah, we need to stop.' I can leave it at that, but don't use the things you've put in as "this is what you need to have basic functionality in your job' as a justification to anything.  Truth of the matter is, you don't have to, and the one you gave there... well, no way I can say this easily, but that one is going to frustrate people.

That said, I'm working on extrapolating a few of the modification rules over to 5E as a sort of stopgap.  Some of the things probably won't work anymore, others however, should, with reasonable effectiveness.

[lightknight]

Vehicle and Weapon modifications are complex rules that do not necessarily fit within the Core book, just like Unwired mentioned "no you can't copy programs until you hack them and then they degrade". Of course there are rules missing on repair and we do need clarifications on many matters, but Riggers received not just vehicles and drones, but also control rigs and RCCs.

And ware and Magic rules are far from complete as well.

I didn't say anything about vehicle or weapon modifications as a broad group.  I was very specific in what I think is the bare minimum that should have been in the main book.  Armor and pilot upgrades.  Neither of which were extensive or wordy modifications in 4E(pilot programs were even in the core SR4A book) and no need to be so this time around. 

But I can see a this is an argument forming and no additional amount of complaining will change the fact that they were left out of the core book.  So I think I'll just leave my final thoughts; as the consumer of the product I am disappointed in the absence of what I consider to be basic upgrades to rigger gear.  And I respectfully request that interim/errata include pilot upgrades and armor upgrades(especially considering the increase in weapon lethality) to make them a more viable archetype until such time as Rigger 5 is completed.  Thank you for reviewing our opinions on the matter.

[Michael Chandra]

You're right that it's weird you can't buy better Pilots right now. I'd just houserule them as requiring a hardware upgrade and use Agent prices for the software.

[DigitalZombie]

to OP, I dont have RAW to back it up with, but Id definetly play it as you only take enough damage that destroyed it. So in your case 5P if it had 10 boxes and was destroyed by 20P.

(although remember none of the drones in the book has a whooping 10 boxes, as their condition modifier is 6+half body )

[Unahim]

to OP, I dont have RAW to back it up with, but Id definetly play it as you only take enough damage that destroyed it. So in your case 5P if it had 10 boxes and was destroyed by 20P.

(although remember none of the drones in the book has a whooping 10 boxes, as their condition modifier is 6+half body )

Yeah, but vehicles can have that amount ^^

[calaen]

To be fair, it might be sensible to start outfitting vehicles into drones.  IE: northrup wasp turns into a passable flying drone.

[T-Hatchet]

I think the there may be a  need for some proportionality of biofeedback damage taken by a jumped in rigger from physical damage to what they have jumped into the 21 damage needed to total an Ares Roadmaster sounds like it would chunky salsa the jumped in rigger who may max out at 11 physical boxes. Then again maybe it is best to keep hot-sim for smaller drones.

[Michael Chandra]

That Roadmaster also will not take damage easily, whereas that squishy drone goes down like a fly.

[Unahim]

Then again maybe it is best to keep hot-sim for smaller drones.

My poor, hot-sim only dronomancer weeps.

[Xenon]

How do you use hot-sim as a rigger?

Your control rig is equipped with a sim module, but i don't see any reference that it is -or can be- modded for hot-sim...

[T-Hatchet]

Like so much Rigger gear the RCC does not appear in the gear section of the book only in the Rigger section. A Riggers gets his sim input from his control rig so does not need one in his RCC or commlink see p 452

"Control rig: This implant harnesses the raw data-coordinating and synchronization power of the middle brain for the express purpose of directly manipulating rigged vehicles and drones (and other devices with rigger interface, like turrets). It has a built-in sim module, so you can use it for DNI with other devices. It also comes with a universal data connector and about a meter of retractable cable (it’s like getting a free datajack). When you’re jumped into a vehicle or drone, the control rig provides its Rating as a dice pool bonus on all Vehicle skill tests. Additionally, the rating of your control rig is added to the Handling and Speed of any vehicle you are jumped into. As if that was not enough, your Vehicle Test thresholds are reduced by the rating of your control rig (to a minimum of 1), again when you’re jumped in."

As to does this sim module need to be modded for hot-sim. I dont know but it would make any but a rating 1 hot-sim modded control rig out of the availability net for starting characters. As a Deck is alwasy hot-sim enabled for similar availability codes I would expect the control rig to be hot-sim enabled but that is just my personal opinion. I am recalling how the last book I saw come out for second edition was the long awaited Rigger 2 and it had some  tables missing for some of the power plants. Here is hoping that Riggers get more attention soon.

[Unahim]

How do you use hot-sim as a rigger?

Your control rig is equipped with a sim module, but i don't see any reference that it is -or can be- modded for hot-sim...

How do you -not- use hot-sim as a technomancer? Jumping In doesn't look like AR to me.

[Xenon]

How do you use hot-sim as a rigger?

Your control rig is equipped with a sim module, but i don't see any reference that it is -or can be- modded for hot-sim...

How do you -not- use hot-sim as a technomancer? Jumping In doesn't look like AR to me.

technomancers are always in hot-sim VR....... (and they can switch to "super AR mode")

but I was asking how you use hot-sim as a rigger using a control rig headware and rcc.
there is a sim module in the control rig headware (but default it is not modded for hot-sim)
rcc does not have a sim module.

hence my question...

guess you can use commlink rules to mod the sim module of the control rig, but that would increase availability to make rating 2 control rig with hot-sim off limits for chargen.

[JackVII]

I'm of the opinion that it is supposed to be hot-sim enabled and wasn't included for some reason. Otherwise, I don't understand the respective Availability codes for cyberdecks, control rigs, and commlinks. It makes sense for a commlink hot-sim to be (F) availability as the only real use for hot-sim on a comm is BTL. Both cyberdecks and Control Rigs can be licensed for legal use. Cyberdecks come standard with hot sim for increased performance (even though it would otherwise be illegal). I think it makes sense if control rigs (also requiring a license) also offered that feature for performance enhancement.