[ZeConster]

By rules as written, you only need to roll 3 hits to land a grenade in a specific location, and with a wireless link, can make it detonate before anyone else ever gets a turn.

[ChaosPhoenix]

pg 181

Projectiles
Ranged combat rules also apply to bows and throwing
weapons. Some special rules also apply.

pg 188

Ranged defense
A defender has two choices for defending against
ranged attacks. The defending character can perform
the standard Reaction + Intuition Test for free. The defender
can also choose to go on Full Defense (p. 191)
and decrease his Initiative Score by 10 to gain a bonus
on their Defense Test equal to their Willpower for the
whole Combat Turn.
See Active Defenses (p. 190) for example.

By rules as written, you get to defend against grenade attacks.  Besides, like it makes sense that you get to "dodge" bullets for free but not grenade blasts.

I'm with you on this

[cndblank]

Page 189 Shadowrun 5th Edition

Defense Modifier Table:  Targeted by area-effect attack –2

This defense modifier makes it should like you can use defense against an area effect attack.

[Ryo]

Wireless Link: This is the safest way to throw a grenade in some aspects, but it also comes with some risk and effort. The thrower (or anyone else who has a mark on the grenade) can detonate it by a wireless link. This requires the attacker to have a direct neural interface to the linked device and use the Change Wireless Device Mode Free Action. This method also reduces scatter. Without a DNI the attacker must use the Change Linked Device Mode Simple Action in their next or any of their subsequent Action Phases to detonate the grenade and scatter is not reduced.

The thing that bothers me the most about the Wireless Link mode is the line that says it reduces scatter, but doesn't specify how much it reduces it. And if it really is a detonate instantly thing, like people in here think, why is it scattering at all?

It's also worth noting that turning Wireless on or off is a free action, as is the command to detonate, so you can't do both on the same action phase. If you're using a wireless linked grenade, you have to spend at least one action phase either with it in your possession and ready to explode, or already on target and needed to be set off with your next action. Either way, enemy hackers are going to immediately latch onto that grenade rather than risk it going off in their direction, which may be the intended balancing factor from denying a defense test.

[Crunch]

This is the one thing I think I will house rule in my home game.

I suspect I will go with a 5 init interrupt action to roll Reaction+Intuition with each hit be 1m moved either away from the grenade, towards cover or (in the case of a really dumb heroic PC) toward the grenade to cover it.

[mtfeeney = Baron]

You always get your defense test.  It's a -2 if you're targeted by area damage.

[GiraffeShaman]

Page 189 Shadowrun 5th Edition

Defense Modifier Table:  Targeted by area-effect attack –2

This defense modifier makes it should like you can use defense against an area effect attack.

Awsome find. I put it in the rules clarifications.

[Ryo]

You always get your defense test.  It's a -2 if you're targeted by area damage.

But what are you rolling against?

Grenadier rolls his Throwing Weapons + Agility [Physical] (3) Success Test and gets 4 hits, so his grenade lands right on target. The Defender then rolls Intuition + Reaction -2 for being a grenade? Against what? The Throwing Weapons test has a threshold; it's not opposed.

[mtfeeney = Baron]

It appears to reduce the damage, but we honestly just don't know.  This wasn't detailed appropriately anywhere in the book.  From what I read, it looks like you get double damage reduction for area damage.  The first one reduces the pre-soak damage, so it's possible to knock the damage down to stun even.

[Ryo]

It appears to reduce the damage, but we honestly just don't know.  This wasn't detailed appropriately anywhere in the book.  From what I read, it looks like you get double damage reduction for area damage.  The first one reduces the pre-soak damage, so it's possible to knock the damage down to stun even.

That's...really bizarre and such a dramatic change to the normal rules of Defense Tests should have been spelt out in the book explicitly.

[Psikerlord]

I believe the -2 AoE defence modifier is an error and a throwback to when (it appears) they had indirect AoE spells working like single target spells, which is also reflected in the (incorrect) Blast example. Bull suggested a month ago that grenades and indirect AoE are undodgeable and revolve around the 3 hit threshold and scatter, instead.

I think (i) they will errata out that -2 AoE defence modifier completely and (ii) redo the Blast spell example in the magic section referencing the 3 hit threshold for grenade-like-spells and remove the dodge reference.

Definitely something to be clarified in the errata doc, whichever version they want to go with.

I also support the "hit the ground" suggestion another poster had abuot providing some kind of protection against AoE. doubling distance, or giving a flat +5 dice on soak, whatever, just something, anything to give a little bonus against against AoE attacks !

[ZombieAcePilot]

I would opt to have hit the ground be allowed to be use to attempt a gymnastics test to jump or dive for cover. Take the -5 penalty and you make your jump check and end up prone at the end of the jump.

[SwiftOne]

Besides, like it makes sense that you get to "dodge" bullets for free but not grenade blasts.

You don't dodge bullets - you dodge the aim of the person behind the gun.  Dodging the aim of someone throwing a grenade next to you doesn't do much.

[GiraffeShaman]

I share the grenade worries, having seen more than one TPK by liberal use of stun grenades.

However, I'm hesitant to house rule some kind dodge rule similar to taking cover from suppresive fire. (It sounded like a good idea at first, until I thought about it) The problem is that grenades are now linked to indirect area spells. Fireball dodges will really gimp mages. So, quite the pickle for me. And it's getting in the way of me learning other rules as I think about this damn issue. 

[Psikerlord]

hmm just thinking about it is there any armour upgrade like fire resistance that helps against grenades? would fire (explosive-ish fire)... work?