[Michael Chandra]

If you don't give a damn, then why do you come into the discussion and start to pick a fight? That's just plain silly.

[Ghoulfodder]

Because I'm curious to read what people are saying about 5th and what I can pick up about it. Except when it's pointless, circular bickering about something frivolous.

And that's not picking a fight, that's heavily sanitised constructive criticism, with a flippant film quote. You don't want to see what I really think.

[Michael Chandra]

Truth be told, I already can see that loud and clear. You're using a transparant mask.

[Bull]

Kids, play nice.

[Michael Chandra]

Butbutbutdaddy, he started it! *cries crocodile tears*

That reminds me. Dons "Bull for Mayor" badge

[Boomstick]

Gremlins ate my post. Be happy.
All that Karma Inferno and A4BG said is right.
(AND ALL THE OTHERS ARE WRONG, EVEN ME;))

@White

These rules aren't perfect, and that is ok.

That is not an argument, seriously. Nothing is perfect, but here it was obvious that things are botched relatively to common sense, and in-universe tech and so on.  So it was evident that people would complain about that. A few statement and exceptions could make sense and everyone would be happy. But it was not fixed not because of laziness, but to enforce the new motto of the game. Which is a weak move IMHO because you don't need to have "everything to imply choices and consequences" to feel the spirit of it. But the authors somehow wanted to be sure you could not grow out of it. And that is stupid (Note: they arent'. The idea can be. Just anticipating flamewars, opinion trial and word examinations).
Because rpg is not a rail road thing, and even if there should be constraint to give the game a style, well, defending the idea by saying that wireless just give bonus is not a good argument because these bonuses don't make sense for people to search them, but if you don't you are lacking compared to the people who have no reason to not be connected, which are usually your target, and that a single hacker can't dispose of because they are too numerous, and also because if he tried, in the end statistically it will cause him to fail and be spotted and make fail the operation.
So it is not a carrot but a stick if you are not connected.
Allegedly you don't oppose only to corpos but that's still a central part of the game.

The wireless bonuses are the thing that we have the most problem with, so let's all think of ways to make them better instead of continuing to be butthurt. The mods are listening, I was able to meet a lot of the developers, they love their players and they love their game.  I know they want to hear what we think so they can improve their product.

I wrote an outline of house rules in the shout out to matrix rules thread.
Take a look at it if you want, I just not complained and I based upon a lot of smart remarks all around.
And for the developpers, they may be present on the board, but for this concern, they are not willing to acknowledge there is a problem (If I misread Aaron post in this thread, all my excuses, but here I think I would not be alone if it was the case, and also, that is not an attack, just an observation, each one of us interpret this will as he likes, I just think about this "gimmick of the game" thing), so unluckily "improving it" will be houserules only, I guess; not even errata (because erratas exist, so pointing problem, even when book is printed, is not pointless, note for Ghoulfodder. THAT is constructive. Not try to teach lessons to others with petty quotations)

[GiraffeShaman]

I can accept that the tripod bonus isn't that realistic. The chemical seal is much more on the borderline. So, you've found proof of one bad call made by the game designers. Shocking. I'm sure we'll find four or five others, and have to houserule it. It doesn't invalidate the whole concept or the majority of the uses.

I thought the whole wireless bonus thing was pretty stupid when I first read about it as well, and complained on these boards. But if the worst that happens is that I have to houserule on tripods, then it's far from a big worry. I'm intrigued about the potential of decker cover becoming something similar to Magician cover from spells. A new aspect to the battlefield.

[White_Ghost]

These rules aren't perfect, and that is ok.

That is not an argument, seriously.

I hadn't meant it to be an argument, so you are right. let me explain:

What I had meant to imply, is that this is the first printing of a brand new edition. Additionally, many of us still don't even have it.

This doesn't mean that there is no room for improvement. I think that some of these bonuses or penalties are nonsensical, and lore doesn't give a proper explanation as to why these new features are necessary or convenient. I don't expect these to be fixed right away, but I do expect our feedback to make some sort of impact. These rules aren't perfect, but we have plenty of time to discuss and change them to something that works. It's important that we do, because as you said, it's a central part of the game.

The wireless bonuses are the thing that we have the most problem with, so let's all think of ways to make them better instead of continuing to be butthurt. The mods are listening, I was able to meet a lot of the developers, they love their players and they love their game.  I know they want to hear what we think so they can improve their product.

I wrote an outline of house rules in the shout out to matrix rules thread.
Take a look at it if you want, I just not complained and I based upon a lot of smart remarks all around.

I'm glad that you did! The butthurt that I refer to lives in this thread, as you've seen above. People are complaining in circles, I just want to nudge them back on topic. I'll take a look at the thread you suggested.

And for the developpers, they may be present on the board, but for this concern, they are not willing to acknowledge there is a problem (If I misread Aaron post in this thread, all my excuses, but here I think I would not be alone if it was the case, and also, that is not an attack, just an observation, each one of us interpret this will as he likes, I just think about this "gimmick of the game" thing), so unluckily "improving it" will be houserules only, I guess; not even errata (because erratas exist, so pointing problem, even when book is printed, is not pointless, note for Ghoulfodder. THAT is constructive. Not try to teach lessons to others with petty quotations)

I expect that this will be something addressed in the rigger and matrix splat books, but not the initial release. Errata is also possible. I intend to throw Ideas and feedback their way to get our point across though. I know that when the official release comes out next month, we'll have a lot of discussion on this issue and many more to convince them to 'acknowledge' there is a problem.

[Sichr]

Because I'm curious to read what people are saying about 5th and what I can pick up about it. Except when it's pointless, circular bickering about something frivolous.

And that's not picking a fight, that's heavily sanitised constructive criticism, with a flippant film quote. You don't want to see what I really think.

+1 to this

[Boomstick]

let me explain:

Then we agree;)

[KarmaInferno]

I'm glad that you did! The butthurt that I refer to lives in this thread, as you've seen above. People are complaining in circles, I just want to nudge them back on topic. I'll take a look at the thread you suggested.

I'd point out that the original subject of this entire thread is about wireless bonuses.

My last few posts were in response to several folks who seemed to be under the erroneous impression that Wireless Bonuses stemmed from being wirelessly DNI linked to gear.

[Kudzu]

I ask again, how exactly does a largely mechanical device somehow operate faster just because it's hooked to the internet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCM1seqnAuY

[FastJack]

An offensive post has been removed and action taken.

[MadBear]

Kudzu, if a computer controlled mechanical device had access to more computing power, it could certainly conceivably operate more efficiently. Enough to warrant a bonus? That part is debatable.
What I have to wonder, is if every device on the planet including toasters takes advantage of cloud computing, are there ways to take advantage of that? Could you set your own devices to NOT contribute to the cloud? Could you program a hundred toasters with a virus that negatively affects any computing they contribute to, then spread them about an area where you expect to need a tactical advantage?

[cndblank]

"There is no real explanation why an Item that did exist in 2050,2060 or 2074 should disappear suddenly in the Year 2075."

Try a real life item from 2007 (see below).

The technology has been around for 70 years but is suddenly gone.

And they were in the 4th edition core rulebook now they are not?
Not cool considering how common they are in most groups.

I expect a lot of people are going to be going "WHERE IS MY SKINLINK?"

That said I can not wait to see 5th.
Sounds like a lot of structural problems have been fixed.



[CEATEC] Transfer Data to and from Your Hand, Human Body Communication Devices
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Oct 3, 2007 19:30 Hideo Ampo, Nikkei Electronics


Data is sent from a mobile phone to a wireless headset via the human body.


Data is sent from a transmitter module embedded in the floor to a mobile phone for playback. The communication can be established even with shoes on.


Music is played back on a portable music player by using the human communication module.

Devices and components utilizing the "human body communication" function are on display at CEATEC Japan 2007. The function performs communications via the human body.

NTT DoCoMo Inc. unveiled a mobile phone and Alps Electric Co. Ltd. showed a communication module using the function.

NTT DoCoMo prototyped a mobile phone equipped with a module for human body communication system. A user who carries this handset in a pocket or around his or her neck can send and receive data simply by holding their hand over the communication terminal.

In the existing system such as "Osaihu Kehtai (Wallet Mobile Phone)," a user has to take out the handset and hold it over the communication terminal. NTT DoCoMo's new handset makes it possible to establish communications just by holding a hand over the terminal, even with the phone in a pocket.

At the exhibition site, the company demonstrated sending music data from a mobile phone to a wireless headset. The headset is provided with an electrode and a reception module. It receives music data via the human body and plays it back on a speaker. The company also demonstrated sending text data from a transmitter module embedded in the floor and receiving the data by the mobile phone via the human body.

"We will possibly manage to commercialize the product in 2009, although we have not decided the release schedule," the company said.

The prototype handset was manufactured by Fujitsu Ltd. The communication module incorporated in the handset is a joint development by Alps Electric and Kaiser Technology Inc. The data transmission rate of the communication module is 40 kbps.

At Alps Electric's booth, the company also demonstrated transmitting music data by using a module for the human communication system. The company installed communication modules connected with a portable music player and a speaker.

When a visitor holds hands over the modules, data is transmitted via the human body and music is played back. Mass production of this communication module "will be ready within this fiscal year" (by March 2009), said a technical demonstrator of the Optic & Sensor Project of Alps Electric's New Business Promotion Division.

In this communication system, data can be transmitted even when a user does not directly touch the communication module, i.e. when the user's hand is located several centimeters away from the module or positioned behind an insulator such as a handkerchief. The setup utilizes what is called "electric field communication system" in which the human body acts as a sort of capacitor to transmit data.

The data transmission rate of the communication module is 40 kbps. (The module is capable of both sending and receiving data.)

"We are planning to develop a module that allows transmission at a rate of several kbps to several hundred kbps," said a developer from the Third Sensor Project of the Third Development Department at the Process Technology Development Center, which is part of the Business Development Division of Alps Electric.

According to the company, the power consumption of this system is an order of magnitude lower than that of Bluetooth and other comparable technologies.

The human body communication system is expected to be generally used for transmitting information of business cards, documents, photos, etc. between mobile terminals held by people shaking hands or approaching to each other, voice transmission between a mobile phone and a headset, ticket gate where passengers can go through just by waving their hand over the machine, and electronic locking/unlocking system.

Furthermore, the human body communication system enables a couple to share one portable music player by holding their hands or cuddling up so that they can listen to the same music on their headsets.

"Other application fields are expected such as healthcare, where the system can be used to store data measured by a body fat scale into a mobile phone and gaming utilizing body communications," said the Alps Electric technical demonstrator.

"The human body communication system is roughly classified into two types using different methods, i.e. electric field system and electric current system, and the R&D is promoted for both types," said Hideyuki Nebiya, president and C.E.O. of Amplet Inc., who is familiar with the human body communication system.

Nebiya also works as an instructor at Department of Electrical and Electronic Engineering, School of Engineering of Tokyo Denki University as well as as an instructor of Information Communication Technology Course at Yokosuka Telecom Research Park Inc.

"Human body communication devices for military purposes have been developed worldwide," he said. "In Europe, such military devices are actively developed. But there are only few cases where human body communication system is utilized in consumer products."

"Japan also has a good chance of taking initiative in the market development," he added. "Standardization must be considered by the entire industry so as to achieve compatibility with other near field wireless communication systems and optical communication systems."

    CEATEC JAPAN 2007 Special Site

boosted reflexes...

Way of the Samurai

And Dikote was used as Houserules in quite some Groups I know.
(mostly with AP-1 and the cost from SR3)

There is no real explanation why an Item that did exist in 2050,2060 or 2074 should disapeear suddenly in the Year 2075.
I bet there's still some  Pocket Secretaries that You can buy  in Shadowrun
As well as you can still buy Music tapes nowadays

HokaHey
Medicineman