[voydangel]

There is one thing I've been tossing around as a house rule, but have not yet implemented, that applies directly to this thread...

Use the rating of the programs as a limiter on the max hits you can get for a hacking roll. Much as the force of a spell limits the hits achievable on a magic + Spell casting roll.

Of course this would necessitate coming up with all new rolls (which attribute + skill) for each matrix action.

Alternatively, you could try making your intuition and/or logic be the limiting factor, and keep all the rolls intact in the RAW.

I haven't really ironed out the kinks yet, but it's an idea if you don't want hackers running around with low attributes. Since technically, as written, it's entirely possible and there's not much of a drawback for doing in built into the system. But as other above me in the thread have mentioned, it's up to the GM to make having those stats worth while ala writing your own code and making you own comms.

Hope this helps in some way.

Cheers

[Kontact]

Of course there is the option of just making things harder.

Well, hacking thresholds are already pretty high, some of the highest in the game really, so a few more dice aren't going to shatter worlds.
One thing I've done in the past is to make it Logic or Program with the non-dominant skill taking a Teamwork position.  Teamwork in this case meaning, you roll the dice for that attribute and add hits to the Dice Pool of the test.  That makes it an average 1/3rd bonus from the lesser stat.

So, the Skiddie lets the Program run on alt preset standard and might be able to help adjust it with his meager Logic.
Meanwhile the ghetto-savant works his garbage-ass Program his way, using his sublime Logic.  Sometimes the program surprisingly does what it was supposed to do without his urging, but mostly, he is throwing the code where it needs to be.
And, finally, the supreme virtuoso whips his homebrewed supertools into a stunning display of cyber-supremacy, with the perfect machinations of the Program taking the forefront, but being continuously guided and conducted by the virtuoso's god-like mental faculties.

[Mooncrow]

Of course there is the option of just making things harder.

Well, hacking thresholds are already pretty high, some of the highest in the game really, so a few more dice aren't going to shatter worlds.
One thing I've done in the past is to make it Logic or Program with the non-dominant skill taking a Teamwork position.  Teamwork in this case meaning, you roll the dice for that attribute and add hits to the Dice Pool of the test.  That makes it an average 1/3rd bonus from the lesser stat.

So, the Skiddie lets the Program run on alt preset standard and might be able to help adjust it with his meager Logic.
Meanwhile the ghetto-savant works his garbage-ass Program his way, using his sublime Logic.  Sometimes the program surprisingly does what it was supposed to do without his urging, but mostly, he is throwing the code where it needs to be.
And, finally, the supreme virtuoso whips his homebrewed supertools into a stunning display of cyber-supremacy, with the perfect machinations of the Program taking the forefront, but being continuously guided and conducted by the virtuoso's god-like mental faculties.

That's not a bad idea - do you adjust the thresholds to make the high logic +  high program guy the standard, or do you have it just much easier than written?

[Kontact]

I adjust the thresholds a little, but I like Hacking on the Fly to be more than a desperate death sentence.

The reason I like doing a one or the other plus one third thing is that it doesn't generally get out of control, and, unlike using logic and capping hits to program rating, it doesn't make Technomancers useless.  It really helps non-TMs stay in the cybergame.

[Mooncrow]

Yeah, to clarify, I was wondering how it worked out to make things a little easier for the true specialist.  Hacking tends to be hard enough, it would be interesting to see some rules to let it run a little faster/safer.

[Darkeus]

If you actually use the optional rules from Unwired, you can limit hits on Hacking rolls by Logic.   Not net hits but total hits.

[Mooncrow]

If you actually use the optional rules from Unwired, you can limit hits on Hacking rolls by Logic.   Not net hits but total hits.

Right, which turns out to be fairly brutal against anyone who doesn't have a sky-high Log score, and particularly against TMs.

I like the teamwork interaction between the two much better.

[Casazil]

There is one thing I've been tossing around as a house rule, but have not yet implemented, that applies directly to this thread...

Use the rating of the programs as a limiter on the max hits you can get for a hacking roll. Much as the force of a spell limits the hits achievable on a magic + Spell casting roll.

That would be the optional rules as writen in unwired. I think

[Doc Chaos]

There is one thing I've been tossing around as a house rule, but have not yet implemented, that applies directly to this thread...

Use the rating of the programs as a limiter on the max hits you can get for a hacking roll. Much as the force of a spell limits the hits achievable on a magic + Spell casting roll.

That would be the optional rules as writen in unwired. I think

The prophecy says, you are correct sir.

[Darkeus]

If you actually use the optional rules from Unwired, you can limit hits on Hacking rolls by Logic.   Not net hits but total hits.

Right, which turns out to be fairly brutal against anyone who doesn't have a sky-high Log score, and particularly against TMs.

I like the teamwork interaction between the two much better.

Which I believe is another optional rule from Unwired as well.  Or at least a rule discussed on DumpShock.

[Casazil]

Yeah I read so many rules I do sometimes have to think really hard where it was said book or website.

Gotta watch some of those houserules on Dumpshock they totaly go outside the rules as written or even as meant to be used.

[Mooncrow]

Yeah I read so many rules I do sometimes have to think really hard where it was said book or website.

Gotta watch some of those houserules on Dumpshock they totaly go outside the rules as written or even as meant to be used.

/shrug - my care for the intent of the writers extends only so far as my table enjoys it.  The second a rule, either written or intended, impinges on that - out it goes^^

[Casazil]

And thus the quote in the book that goes something like this:

these rules are just a suggestion feel free to make changes.

or something like that

[Tiamat]

I will say that I've been in a game where it was houseruled that you just assume you have max in all programs and that they're all running, so you just run logic + hacking to do anything.

Very trivial, very boring.

[FastJack]

I will say that I've been in a game where it was houseruled that you just assume you have max in all programs and that they're all running, so you just run logic + hacking to do anything.

Very trivial, very boring.

Sounds it. I can kinda understand the knowing the program at all levels, making it more like the spell system, but there's no "drain" involved, so of course you'd max it out.