[UmaroVI]

It's phrased in a strange way - not surprising given the generally poor editing in WAR! You can read pretty much anything into it. I've seen it only applying to the single highest rating on any of your armor as the most common interpretation, although I'm sure that's really just the internet-wide conspiracy to hate elves, humans, and armor .

There's also the question of what if you softweave something like Urban Explorer that has even values? Nobody knows. Generally it's assumed that you pick one and stick with it.

If you go with Option 1 and allow people to start Softweaving PPP and such, things get really wacky. I did some quick back-of-the-napkin checks and you can get 20/18 armor with 3 Body, 5 Strength, and without any other debatable rules interpretations (so no stacking weaves or wearing more than one helmet).

[UmaroVI]

You could also get 18/14 with 2 Body and 2 Strength.

[Michael Chandra]

Honestly I'd houserule SoftWeave myself as something very simple and extremely different: If ALL your armor (excluding SecureTech) is SoftWeaved for comfort, you take the best armor you have stacked (A set counts as 1) which basically is FormFitting or the one other you have, and reduce its Ballistic and Impact with Strength for Encumbrance. Since it's only a 10% cost, anything more seems like complete overkill.

[viaRailGun]

i don't agree with softweaving armor that adds a bonus to B/I ratings(helmets,shields,masks), because they 'add' their rating to worn armor, hence becoming a part of the armor itself.

you're B/I values are still limited due to the amount of wearable armor(one of each: FF, armor, PPP set, mask, helm, shield)

i'm working with a BOD 4 and STR 5:

FFFBS (6/2) +ynt
urban explorer jumpsuit (6/6) +ynt
lined coat (6/4) +ynt (note: only the highest rated armor is applied to B/I ratings)
PPP ensemble (+2/+4)
ballistic mask (+2/+1)
helmet (+1/+2)

chummer says ok, but can we really trust computers like that.

edit: 17/15 B/I values seem a bit high?

[Kiirnodel]

I agree with Chandra, it seems strange that putting softweave on a Mortimer of London Suit should provide significanly more "benefit" than an Armor Jacket or even SWAT armor suit or Milspec.

For example, given a completely average Human (All Attributes 3)

An Armor Jacket is 8/6, softweave would reduce this to being considered 5/6 for encumbrance (good)

SWAT armor is 12/10, softweave would reduce this to being considered 9/10 for encumbrance (-2 penalty)

Light Military grade is 12/10, softweave would reduce this to being considered 9/10 for encumbrance (only -1 penalty because of the Body x 3 for encumbrance)

Now the Mortimer of London clothing would not normally encumber a person with 3 Body, with the Suit Jacket, the full set is 5/3 armor.
With Option 1, the softweave would be reduced to 0/3 (or possibly 1/2)
Options 2 & 3 would both reduce this to a more reasonable 2/3 (Option 2 by reducing the Suit Jacket, Option 3 by comparing the total values and reducing the total 5/3)

Using Option 1 on the full SecureTech set results in the set providing its 2/6 armor for only 2/0 for encumbrance purposes, and that would only require a Strength of 1.

The game is set up such that having a low Body is bad. That's just the way it is. If you feel that you need more armor, there are plenty of ways to improve things without resorting to munchkin'ing your armor sets.

[Michael Chandra]

Chummer is completely unreliable as it has shown in several cases, don't count on it to reflect RAI on any detabable issues. HeroLab might be a better shot, though they too have their RAI moments and unfortunately I can't check because I never bought War! for HeroLab.

Honestly I wouldn't allow SoftWeave on SecureTech, by the way. These are pads, not actual armor. Formfitting is extremely debatable, normal armor isn't, sets should probably sound as one.

[UmaroVI]

If you do not allow armor accessories to be softweaved, then things don't get quite as out-of-control, but they still do get wacky as you softweave your FFBA and then each element of your armor set. At high strength, you can also do things like wear two different pieces of "base" armor, one with low B/high I, and one with high I/low B, and overlap them.

Not allowing Softweave on FFBA, counting it only once on sets, and not allowing it on accessories doesn't quite fix the latter problem. You should really just go with one Softweave per character, however you want to determine what it applies to.

[Aryeonos]

"For purposes of armor allowance (see Armor and Encumbrance, p. 161, SR4A), reduce the highest armor rating of worn armor by the wearer’s Strength"

The way I see it, the phrase "highest armor rating of worn armor" can be interpreted in a few different ways.

[li]Option 1: The higher of the armor ratings (Ballistic vs. Impact) of each piece of armor worn (assuming it is softweave, of course). Each of these values is affected.[/li]

[li]Option 2: The highest of all the armor ratings selected from all your worn softweave armor. This one highest value is reduced.[/li]

[li]Option 3: The higher of your two armor values calculated from your worn softweave armor. Like Option 2, only reducing one armor value (likely the same result, but possibly slightly different result).[/li]
[/list]

Option 1 results in your total armor value(s) being increased up to your Strength x number of pieces of armor

Option 2/3 resuls in one of the total armor values being up to your Strength Attribute higher than normal.

EDIT: Corrected Options 2 and 3 to correct for the possibility of reducing armor that is not softweave.

Christ, the first option is true, it would state in the rules, that you could only use it on one piece of armour, if that was the intent. It is a clothing mod, applied per item. And just like normal encumbrance rules affects the highest of the two ratings to get your encumbrance value.

[viaRailGun]

Christ, the first option is true, it would state in the rules, that you could only use it on one piece of armour, if that was the intent. It is a clothing mod, applied per item. And just like normal encumbrance rules affects the highest of the two ratings to get your encumbrance value.

i totally agree. in the event of a tie (for instance: urban explorer jumpsuit has 6/6), i'm assuming it's the players decision which value is affected.

[Aryeonos]

either option pick is irrelevant, how encumbrance works is just a quick quantification of the rigidity of layers of armour based on their values.

If your players start getting cheesy with the armour they're wearing, start giving them penalties for wearing unsuitable clothing/armour for their environment. Good common sense, and not playing to win at min maxing, easily curbs any perceived exploitation of the rules and armour stacking.

For allot of my characters I just take YNT as a flavour upgrade, because none of them are human, and YNT was made for non basic metahumans.

The other thing is, there are rules for armour degradation, so use them. Have fun on the upkeep of your  10 bullet proof sweaters.

[viaRailGun]

or just scrap'em and start anew. stockpile a few sets of armor, and bring'em out when the damaged set is at the "cleaners" 

[Aryeonos]

Exactly, more gear should mean more overhead, if you want the big guns, you gotta feed em, you want armour you should have to take care of it.

If you're going to walk into a fight like you stumbled through several department stores, you should promptly be laughed at, then fall unconscious from heat stroke.

[Michael Chandra]

Honestly I think it's better to figure out the best way to use these rules and decide whether you allow them, rather than suddenly going "if you're doing this we're throwing in armor maintenance rules".

[Aryeonos]

Page 44 of arsenal. If you're going to be using anything other than just SR4A, then you need to be using the additional armour rules.

[Michael Chandra]

Uhm... No. They're optional rules. There is no need to use, the GM can decide for themselves. I use Max Mod and Capacity, not Degradation, any GM can decide which they want to use. It's the same as MilSpec, Adept Geas, additional sourcebooks beyond (Extended) Core, Martial Arts, etc.

If a GM wants to use this, he has every right. But if my GM goes "oh you use material X? Well suddenly your armor starts degrading. Suck it up boys," he's gonna piss me off.