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Line of Sight

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Mirikon

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« Reply #15 on: <02-19-13/1622:20> »
*bows* You're welcome.
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #16 on: <02-20-13/1423:57> »
Yeah, but you usually don't get that opportunity, especially with a vehicle.  Blind-Fire, shooting through an armored vehicle, there are all sorts of penalties.  It's even worse if you're using magic of some sort.  An AV round into the radiator grille, and so into the engine block, will typically kill the car more easily - or better yet, put the axe to its source of mobility, whether that's a car's much-less-armored tires, the rotors on a helo, prop plane, or boat, or the jet engine on a plane or impeller-driven boat.  Almost all of those are vulnerable, and/or less well-armored than the pilot/passenger compartment.  Afterwards, you can dispense the people inside at your leisure.

You don't have to kill the vehicle to stop it, you just have to remove its method of propulsion
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Prodigy

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« Reply #17 on: <02-20-13/1625:06> »
What you say is true, Wyrm. Totally depends on the vehicle though. A tank? Engine block. A car? Driver. Just basing this on RL sniper tactics.

In general though, you are correct. In large vehicles it is typically easier to hit the engine than a person.

JoeNapalm

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« Reply #18 on: <02-20-13/1634:29> »

Typically, people are squishier than engine blocks.

Just sayin'.


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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #19 on: <02-20-13/1636:05> »
What you say is true, Wyrm. Totally depends on the vehicle though. A tank? Engine block. A car? Driver. Just basing this on RL sniper tactics.

In general though, you are correct. In large vehicles it is typically easier to hit the engine than a person.

In game, not really. It's a Called Shot at an unarmored area, and thus the only way to do it is taking the penalty equal to the Armor of the vehicle.
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Prodigy

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« Reply #20 on: <02-20-13/1702:14> »

Typically, people are squishier than engine blocks.

Just sayin'.


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True that.

What you say is true, Wyrm. Totally depends on the vehicle though. A tank? Engine block. A car? Driver. Just basing this on RL sniper tactics.

In general though, you are correct. In large vehicles it is typically easier to hit the engine than a person.

In game, not really. It's a Called Shot at an unarmored area, and thus the only way to do it is taking the penalty
equal to the Armor of the vehicle.

Game mechanics-wise, that's true.

Mournclaw

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« Reply #21 on: <02-20-13/1720:46> »
So can a single-target indirect spell go through barriers? I mean if it's a lump of whatever moving instead of an effect at that point...?

Falconer

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« Reply #22 on: <02-20-13/1821:02> »
Physical indirect spells blow up early when they hit barriers or mirrors.  They originate at the caster and fly to the targets...  (the reason you can't use them with mage sight fiberoptic systems)

Against physical-plane mana barriers... they either fizzle and don't go through or just punch through for normal effect.  Normal effect being add the barriers rating to resistance dice like other spells going normally through a mana barrier.


That's all under 'indirect combat spells' end of the first paragraph.

Mournclaw

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« Reply #23 on: <02-20-13/2015:14> »
Okay, got it. So in the end, I'll still have to go for manipulation spells for "casting" through barriers, as in the fling spell... Maybe to go along with a spell made to produce small lumps of metal. Would have to sustain it, though, so... Well, what wouldn't one do for style points. I mean, if magic existed RL, that's so0 what I would do.

Back to the line of sight issue; If you really want to blast away to behind the cover, just take the elemental grenade from WAR and call it a day. It's just like firing a grenade launcher but with your spellcasting skill.

Falconer

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« Reply #24 on: <02-20-13/2224:54> »
There's really little to no reason to use the grenade spell when you have an actual fireball spell.  Congrats... here's fireball only now with scatter!


As far as manipulations go... the closest thing to a damage spell is 'ignite' which needs to be sustained for multiple combat turns before it takes effect.   You can use levitate to move things... (I've used that to good effect... lifted a 200-400kg steel i-beam into a helicopters rotors so it couldn't take off.)     But even there it's really hard... the I-beam is OR2 or 3... 2 more threshold for weight... so you need 4 successes to just hold it up let alone move it....

But in general... they've tried to restrict damage producting instant spell effects to combat spells.

Indirect combat spells were intentionally moved out of manipulations to combat in fact.... even now one of the criticisms is that manipulation is probably the single best spell category on it's own.

WellsIDidIt

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« Reply #25 on: <02-21-13/0056:55> »
Quote
In game, not really. It's a Called Shot at an unarmored area, and thus the only way to do it is taking the penalty equal to the Armor of the vehicle.

That's one possible way to do it, but there is always the other Call Shot effect that could come into play: "The gamemaster may also allow other specific effects for called shots if he chooses. For example, you could use called shots to knock an opponent over a ledge, shoot out a tire, temporarily blind an opponent, etc."

Disabling movement, forcing a crash test, etc. are all things possible through this rule. You don't have to destroy the vehicle (which dealing damage by bypassing armor would be doing) to disable a function of it.

Blue_Lion

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« Reply #26 on: <02-21-13/1348:38> »
Line of sight in shadow run is a litte difrent from how the term is used today. Today when it is used as range it usaly refers to the point at witch the two points abilty to precive eachother is blocked by some sort of barrier that stops the medium from reaching it. In Line of Sight radios that usaly means a large terane feature or cuve of the earth, for vision it usaly means something you cant see threw such as a wall or fog. There is even a mathmatical formila for determing.

Now in shadow run magic it is a bit murker as some things like use of mirrors and fibor optics whould allow it when a barrer is between point A and B. This repater affect allowed is working outside of normal direct line of sight so magic seams to be limited by the abilty to precive the target threw a direct means.
 

Mournclaw

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« Reply #27 on: <02-21-13/1350:16> »
There's really little to no reason to use the grenade spell when you have an actual fireball spell.  Congrats... here's fireball only now with scatter!


Oh, but I can think of several scenarios where grenade spell would be more useful. As it says in the description, normal gravity takes place for the grenade Meaning you can do indirect fire with it over high walls, for example. Also, if you're high on ini-passes (be it through a spell or 'ware) you can shoot multiple of them and explode them on just the right time with the simple action. It could act as a good deterrent for the melee guys not to come charging if there's a grenade out in the open between you and him. You could hand the ball for the expert lobber on your team (it is a physical object, after all) and get some greatly accurate shots made, or maybe use levitate for it, or magic fingers... The uses are multiple to the extent of almost endless! Buy your own grenade spell now!

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #28 on: <02-21-13/1440:24> »
Line of sight in shadow run is a litte difrent from how the term is used today. Today when it is used as range it usaly refers to the point at witch the two points abilty to precive eachother is blocked by some sort of barrier that stops the medium from reaching it. In Line of Sight radios that usaly means a large terane feature or cuve of the earth, for vision it usaly means something you cant see threw such as a wall or fog. There is even a mathmatical formila for determing.

Now in shadow run magic it is a bit murker as some things like use of mirrors and fibor optics whould allow it when a barrer is between point A and B. This repater affect allowed is working outside of normal direct line of sight so magic seams to be limited by the abilty to precive the target threw a direct means.

... not sure where you're getting your information, Blue Lion.  'Line of Sight' is about where or how it's blocked?  Sorry, but no - LOS has to do with actual visibility, not impinged visibility.
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JoeNapalm

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« Reply #29 on: <02-21-13/1448:37> »

Yeah, I'm afraid if you're saying a term means something different in 2070 than it does today, you should probably provide some corroboration.

Line-of-Sight generally means an unobstructed, relatively flat line between two points.

Not sure why you believe that would change.


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