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Game Balance, Power Creep. Tastes Great, Less Filling!!

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Kat9

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« on: <12-16-12/1640:50> »
Here you go, have fun with the debate.

CanRay

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« Reply #1 on: <12-16-12/1645:34> »
Magazines, Clips?  ;D
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#ThisTaserGoesTo11

Xzylvador

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« Reply #2 on: <12-16-12/1658:48> »
Magazines, Clips?  ;D
Yeah, add that to the name of this thread and it'd be the biggest trollbait evar posted on the interwebz!

Wait, no.
Also add GMPC.

Kat9

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« Reply #3 on: <12-16-12/1734:17> »
Nah its just because every thread lately gets highjacked by munchkin vs game balance. I figured might as well as make a thread they can continue the _endless_ "debate" and let normal threads keep on topic.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #4 on: <12-16-12/1942:35> »
Well, speaking seriously on the topic at hand ...

'Game balance' in Shadowrun is not IMO something that needs to be performed between players.  A security platoon that is a threat to the made-for-firearm-combat street samurai should wipe the floor with the close-combat adept, the spirit-caller shaman, the hacker, or the face.  Why?  Because they're not made for that.  In the same light, a street samurai gun-bunny should not be hacking, calling up spirits, negotiating, or go toe-to-toe - and expect to regularly beat the others, i.e. more than one time in four or five.  Why not?  Because those are their areas of expertise.

Shadowrunners are meant to have the areas in which they shine.  In those areas, they should be two steps ahead of anyone but the guy who is the dedicated second-placer - and if you look at the game design for starting characters, that's actually part of the idea.  What's the cap on skills?  One 6, any others at 4 - or else two 5s, and anything else at 4.  The best gunslinger that deckerman is suppsed to be is two steps behind gunbunny - and the best hacker that gunbunny is supposed to be is two steps behind deckerman.

"Balance" in Shadowrun is meant to be between the team and the opposition - and as a consequence, it's something that the GM needs to take care with.  Yes, the security platoon might catch the non-gunbunny PCs in a withering crossfire that wipes them out (or so they think!) because the gunbunny wasn't there; that's always a possibility.  The other PCs can influence that, whether from information, or clever use of a spirit, or even just getting the chance to pretend they're good corporate citizens and fast-talking the guards to let them by, they're running away from the crazy dangerous shadowrunners.  Perhaps the Kickass-Fu adept manages to get into position and turn the threat range around, and has his own defining moment of cool.

But even if the troll drake adept is great for tearing apart Citymasters and setting someone up to pose a threat to his massive abilities endangers the rest of the team, it's the GM's job to make that threat-to-the-rest-of-the-team one that overwhelms them but doesn't kill them.  Or leans it so that the team's entire plan is for the TDA to take his licks and get his ass kicked in order to distract The Threat while the rest of the team gets the job done.  That is what game-balance is.

Yes, it's all in the hands of the GM.  And yes, there will be times where you want to threaten the other PCs with stuff in areas they don't have - but that's where forcing the group to split comes in, and bringing in a danger not-quite-as-great as The Threat.  And yes, there will be times when the GM REALLY doesn't want to have to bring in a juggernaut or a dragon or a panzer or an ATGM or disable the possibility of the TDA shapeshifting into his car-killer form into the game.

Game Balance between players is, really, a gauge of the difficulty they each face in their speciality.   I agree completely if the GM doesn't want to have that power level in the game, and for that reason I wouldn't expect the hacker to be dealing with Geneva Orbital, or the face staring down Richard Villiers.  If the face isn't there, then the players are going to get wiped away by Villiers just as thoroughly as if the gun-bunny wasn't there and they were facing down the Ultra Team of the corporate security.  Balance your game there - not in whether or not Juju the spirit-caller is going to be able to win the same combat that 5.56mm the street sam is.
Pananagutan & End/Line

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SarahDo

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« Reply #5 on: <07-02-14/2206:07> »
Here you go, have fun with the debate.

The game is well balanced the way I see it. No reason to debate too much. I mean balance is never perfect, but its pretty decent.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #6 on: <07-03-14/0025:30> »
The necromancy is strong with this one ...
Pananagutan & End/Line

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Namikaze

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« Reply #7 on: <07-03-14/0029:53> »
No kidding - maybe we should have a system that automatically locks posts with no replies for a year.  :P
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

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Ryo

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« Reply #8 on: <07-03-14/0032:07> »
The necromancy is strong with this one ...

Maybe he's enjoying the new Necromancy rules from Street Grimoire and wanted to try reading the bones?

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #9 on: <07-03-14/0212:36> »
I think she's a she - 'SarahDo', e.g. Sarah, therefore 'she'.

Nevertheless - don't you know that the bones never tell anyone anything?  It's rule #2 from 'Willow',
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

Agonar

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« Reply #10 on: <07-03-14/0217:22> »
Magazines, Clips?  ;D
This guy is right there with you!
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/01/21/anti-gun-senator-is-being-mocked-relentlessly-after-he-warned-of-30-caliber-clip-in-embarrassing-video/

He has a .30 calibre magazine clip, on a gun that can dispense 30 magazines, in half a second.. or..  something.  Seriously, listening to his spiel makes my brain hurt.
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Sendaz

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« Reply #11 on: <07-03-14/0443:56> »
No kidding - maybe we should have a system that automatically locks posts with no replies for a year.  :P
Noo.. the best necro posts are when they are done a year to the day of the last post so it looks continuous if you don't spot the year.
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SunRunner

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« Reply #12 on: <07-03-14/1221:56> »
+1 Necro!!!

Parker

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« Reply #13 on: <07-03-14/1637:51> »
Ehh.. G.O.D. always counts in the end!


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DeathStrobe

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« Reply #14 on: <07-03-14/1859:02> »
No kidding - maybe we should have a system that automatically locks posts with no replies for a year.  :P

No way, sometimes necroing threads is important. Like in the Secret History board.