Author Topic: Shadowrun 4E and Earthdawn connections?  (Read 14646 times)

Nath

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Re: Shadowrun 4E and Earthdawn connections?
« Reply #90 on: May 26, 2012, 07:46:42 AM »
Two additional thoughts about the Heavenherds... and then some more.

Some people may wonder how the heirs to Thera/Atlantis, specifically trying to preserve the lore and knowledge, could end as a tribe of hunter gatherer instead of, say, a major civilization building pyramids or the Nuremberg stadium. I got an answer for that: magic. Thera depended on magic. Everything from they do in from mining to architecture would heavily relies on magic. Remove magic and all that knowledge is next to useless.
On top of that, maybe the Heavenherd were also actually given instructions to keep a low profile during the whole Fifth Age, since major civilizations tend to get involved in war and all that.

Let's also go with the crazy theory. We're told about the Heavenherd in Augmentations because members of the tribe used the live-lengthening rituals as a basis for cybermancy in Universal Omnitech project. Universal Omnitech, as you may know, is a biotech corporation, headquartered in Vancouver but also very active in Africa (after moving into the synthetic diamonds market with Dikote, they came to bought off De Beers).
There is another organization that deal with biotech, active in Africa, whose very name points at an origin in the Pacific Northwest: Tamanous. We can imagine there would some connection between one major biotech corp and the major organlegging gang operating in the same business and the same areas.
For the Pacific Nortwest tribes, the Tamanous is the name of one or several spirits, depending on who you ask (as far as I understand, near California and Oregon, legends refer to Tamanous as a single great spirit, while in Wasghington and British Columbia Tamanous is a generic term). Canadian law did ban at some point the potlatch rituals as well as the Tamanawas dance. The SR organleggers organization may be related to the Hamatsa cannibal secret society of the Kwakiutl tribe that worshipped a spirit called the Black Tamanous (on the other hand, considering the size of the Kwakiutl tribe and its poor condition within the Tsimshian police state, it may be unlikely Tamanous origin would be such a secret if it was a purely Kwakiutl thing). Potlacht is one forme of ritualized material sacrifice (well, not so ritualized in SR when the Tsimshian nation used to apply death penalty on Potlatch Day...). Cannibalism on the other hand, is straight blood magic. To put it another way, Pacific Northwest culture share some traits with Mesoamerican cultures.
So, we can imagine Tamanous and Universal Omnitech would pick up their shamans from the same lodges, lodges that practice blood magic. And the Heavenherds would have worked with such shamans to perform cybermancy... We can go as far as claiming that of all the magical groups that exist in the world, not the least of them the two elven nation that wooed them, the Heavenherd chose to work with blood mages from the Pacific Northwest. And at that time, UO was also cooperating with Aztechnology...

Mirikon

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Re: Shadowrun 4E and Earthdawn connections?
« Reply #91 on: June 01, 2012, 05:36:30 AM »
Could anyone tell me if the great dragons finally stuck it to the Outcast and his kids in Iopos, and if so, what book it is in? I'm rereading some of the old Earthdawn books for kicks at work.
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Nath

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Re: Shadowrun 4E and Earthdawn connections?
« Reply #92 on: June 07, 2012, 02:38:26 PM »
If you read the Thera Empire from Earthdawn you will see that Thera/Atlantis had colonies in the Americas
The Theran colony is called Araucania. Until today, I assumed this ought to be a reference to modern-era Araucania or Araucana, a region in central Chili, named after the city of Arauco, itself named by the Spanish after the locals name for a river flowing there (it means "chalky water" as far as the Internet goes). But I discovered there is also an Arauca river stretching from Colombia to Venezuela, flowing into Orinoco. That location that would have a lot more implication given the ongoing war in the area. It seems (again, Internet sources) the U'wa tribe was also called U'wa Auraca by their neighbors, "u'wa" meaning "people" and "u'wa arauca" meaning "the thinking people" or "the people who speak well." Such name may make sense for people descending from a much more advanced civilization.

Of course, there's some suspension of disbelief required here to believe the name could have been kept for millenias, but people in Barsaive circa 4000 BC weren't speaking English either.

We have no real idea on how long between ED time and real end of the 4th world, probably a mere centuries, I dont think a millenium.
Actually, we do. Earthdawn starts right after the end of the Scourge, which was a period of about 400 years during which the mana level was highest and the Horrors could run amok. This would have been roughly in the middle of the Fourth World, about halfway between the downcycles of the Third and Fifth worlds. The Mayan Long Count is about 5,000 years long, so there should be about 2,000 years between Earthdawn and the mana level dropping to pre-Awakening levels.
It is actually an assumption that the peak occurred at the exact middle of the Fourth Age. It's an assumption that most people took as granted so far, including some if not most of the authors. But as far as I know, it has yet to be a written statement in a book.

To me, the most interesting part of the peak-in-the-middle assumption is RL geologists think the Mount Mazama eruption that created Crater Lake would have occurred around 5,677 BC ±150, while the mana would have peaked in 5'675 BC. That would have a different meaning from the much more genuine date claimed by Tir Tairngire historian Lacrima in 3'454 BC.

Sichr

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Re: Shadowrun 4E and Earthdawn connections?
« Reply #93 on: June 08, 2012, 04:26:17 AM »
Since flow of mana and the Cycle is described as sinusoid it makes sense to assume that the peak is in the middle of the curve...

Mirikon

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Re: Shadowrun 4E and Earthdawn connections?
« Reply #94 on: June 08, 2012, 06:28:07 AM »
The cycle does not conform to a perfect wave form. There are spikes and ebbs, and sometimes deliberate efforts to change the curve.
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Longshot23

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Re: Shadowrun 4E and Earthdawn connections?
« Reply #95 on: June 08, 2012, 06:42:53 AM »
The cycle does not conform to a perfect wave form. There are spikes and ebbs, and sometimes deliberate efforts to change the curve.

Aha . . . one of Aztechnology's Secret/Master Plans stands revealed . . .

Sichr

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Re: Shadowrun 4E and Earthdawn connections?
« Reply #96 on: June 08, 2012, 07:18:44 AM »
For me its more like High Tide/Ebb tide. There may be storms that can temporarily increase the sea level on the coast, and there are even Tsunami, well that sequenceis the only one that stands forever...

IKerensky

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Re: Shadowrun 4E and Earthdawn connections?
« Reply #97 on: June 08, 2012, 08:43:49 AM »
And remember than in ED times, both Horrors in Vasgothia and Therans in Thera and other places of power, are actively sustaining the magic level so he stop resceding.... this could have prolongued the cycle. Or not, if the sudden crash of thoses constructs put the level back to normal very fast (and sunk Thera BTW).

ArkangelWinter

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Re: Shadowrun 4E and Earthdawn connections?
« Reply #98 on: June 08, 2012, 02:27:14 PM »
And remember than in ED times, both Horrors in Vasgothia and Therans in Thera and other places of power, are actively sustaining the magic level so he stop resceding.... this could have prolongued the cycle. Or not, if the sudden crash of thoses constructs put the level back to normal very fast (and sunk Thera BTW).

From which ww can take the lesson that the cycle is unchangeable and self-repairing and trying to affect it is like trying to stop George Takei from saying Ohh Myyy (tm)

All4BigGuns

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Re: Shadowrun 4E and Earthdawn connections?
« Reply #99 on: June 08, 2012, 02:34:28 PM »
And remember than in ED times, both Horrors in Vasgothia and Therans in Thera and other places of power, are actively sustaining the magic level so he stop resceding.... this could have prolongued the cycle. Or not, if the sudden crash of thoses constructs put the level back to normal very fast (and sunk Thera BTW).

Would this Thera place be Atlantis?
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ArkangelWinter

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Re: Shadowrun 4E and Earthdawn connections?
« Reply #100 on: June 08, 2012, 02:38:05 PM »
I'm fairly sure it's canon that Thera inspired the Atlantis myth.

Mirikon

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Re: Shadowrun 4E and Earthdawn connections?
« Reply #101 on: June 08, 2012, 04:54:17 PM »
Thera was the source of the Atlantis myth, yeah. And if there was anyone in the Sixth World who would be carrying on the best traditions of the Theran Empire, it would be Aztechnology.
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Sichr

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Re: Shadowrun 4E and Earthdawn connections?
« Reply #102 on: June 08, 2012, 04:59:39 PM »
Aehm...
Atlantis was the source of Thera myth.
Considering the oposit to be truth means you are realy indoctrinated by Shadowrun/Earthdawn paradigm to the level even Horizon would envy :)

Mirikon

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Re: Shadowrun 4E and Earthdawn connections?
« Reply #103 on: June 08, 2012, 05:41:14 PM »
Sichr, we're speaking from the viewpoint of the setting, in which case Thera was indeed the source of the Atlantis myth. Just as dragons being around in previous ages were the source of all the dragon myths you saw.
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Re: Shadowrun 4E and Earthdawn connections?
« Reply #104 on: June 08, 2012, 05:43:45 PM »
Sichr, we're speaking from the viewpoint of the setting, in which case Thera was indeed the source of the Atlantis myth. Just as dragons being around in previous ages were the source of all the dragon myths you saw.
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