Author Topic: Metavariant PACKs  (Read 10439 times)

FastJack

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Metavariant PACKs
« on: (10:11:00/03-17-11) »
The Metavariants listed in Runner's Companion have the following costs for the PACKs metatype kit:

Human Metavariants
Nartaki 25 BP

Dwarf Metavariants
Gnome 15 BP
Harumen 40 BP
Koborokuru 25 BP
Menehune 15 BP

Elf Metavariants
Dryad 45 BP
Night Ones 35 BP
Wakyambi 35 BP
Xapiri Thëpë 45 BP

Ork Metavariants
Hobgoblin 0 BP
Ogre 0 BP
Oni 5 BP
Satyr 5 BP

Troll Metavariants
Cyclops -5 BP
Fomori -5 BP
Giant -10 BP
Minotaur -5 BP

Infected Metatypes
Metatype  BP BOD AGI REA STR CHA INT LOG WIL EDG
Bandersnatch  0    0    0    0    0    -2    0    -1    2    0 
Loup-Garou  5    1    0    0    4    -2    0    -1    1    0 
Ghoul  5    4    0    2    3    -2    0    -1    2    0 
Goblin*  -5    1    0    1    1    -2    0    -2    2    0 
Fomóraig  25    3    0    1    3    -2    0    0    1    0 
Banshee  65    0    0    0    0    0    1    0    1    0 
Wendigo  90    0    -1    0    0    1    0    0    0    0 
Dzoo-Noo-Qua  70    2    0    2    1    -1    0    0    1    0 
Vampire  100    0    2    2    0    2    1    0    1    0 
Nosferatu  150    1    1    1    1    2    2    2    2    0 

Sapient Critter Metatypes
Metatype  BP BOD AGI REA STR CHA INT LOG WIL EDG
Centaur  10    1    0    0    1    0    -1    -1    0    0 
Naga  10    2    -2    1    3    1    0    0    1    0 
Pixie**  -25    -3    2    2    -3    2    1    1    2    0 
Sasquatch  40    5    0    0    4    0    0    0    0    0 

Shapeshifter Metatypes
Metatype  BP BOD AGI REA STR CHA INT LOG WIL EDG
Fox  20    -1    1    1    -2    0    1    0    0    0 
Wolf  55    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0 
Eagle  60    0    0    0    0    1    0    0    2    0 
Leopard/Jaguar  25    2    4    1    1    -1    -1    -1    -1    0 
Seal  60    3    3    0    1    0    0    0    -1    0 
Tiger/Lion  45    3    4    1    2    0    -1    -1    -1    0 
Bear***  20    6    -2    -1    6    0    -1    -1    -1    0 

*Due to their Logic adjustment, Goblins DO NOT qualify for the following Attribute Kits as published:
BrawlerTank
Ranged ShooterBladesman

**Due to their Body/Strength adjustments, Pixies DO NOT qualify for the following Attribute Kits as published:
Ranged ShooterBladesmanUnit CommanderCombat MageHigh Mage
Newly AwakenedWise ShamanFacemanWheelmanBudding Technomancer
Resonance ProphetInvestigatorJack of All TradesArcane InvestigatorRanged Adept
Melee AdeptSocial AdeptMystic AdeptCovert Operative

***Due to their Agility adjustment, Bear Shapeshifters DO NOT qualify for the following Attribute Kits as published:
Combat MageWise Shaman
FacemanResonance Prophet

Mara

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Re: Metavariant PACKs
« Reply #1 on: (10:34:17/07-26-11) »
Fast Jack, I am curious how you get the math on the Elf and Dwarf Metavariants? I did not think their attribute differences were that large
compared to normal Elves and Dwarves?

FastJack

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Re: Metavariant PACKs
« Reply #2 on: (10:41:19/07-26-11) »
Fast Jack, I am curious how you get the math on the Elf and Dwarf Metavariants? I did not think their attribute differences were that large
compared to normal Elves and Dwarves?
Jeez... I'll have to hunt down the spreadsheet I used for this. I'll get back to you this evening.

Mara

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Re: Metavariant PACKs
« Reply #3 on: (10:51:48/07-26-11) »
Might help to include the modifiers for the ones that are not "same as the standard race",
as well..

FastJack

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Re: Metavariant PACKs
« Reply #4 on: (11:50:49/07-26-11) »
Actually, looking at Runner's Companion, I just realized that the costs are purely the BP costs of the variants listed. Attribute changes are based off qualities for the variants, so I didn't include them.

Lacynth40

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Re: Metavariant PACKs
« Reply #5 on: (22:35:40/07-29-11) »
Actually, looking at Runner's Companion, I just realized that the costs are purely the BP costs of the variants listed. Attribute changes are based off qualities for the variants, so I didn't include them.

Meaning what? Dumb it down a bit, please. Or, better yet, a couple of examples. Cause I didn't catch a word of that.
"Remember, you can't have manslaughter without laughter."

"If violence begat violence, in every case, every human on the planet would instantly devolve into gibbering murderers in a day."

FastJack

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Re: Metavariant PACKs
« Reply #6 on: (23:38:21/07-29-11) »
Meaning that the Build Point costs for the Variant races is a set cost, just like the base races. I only tacked on the PACK differential to the cost.

If you build a dwarf using normal Character Creation rules, it will cost you 25 BP for the race. If you build a Harumen with those rules, it will cost you 50 BP.

Under the PACKS, choosing the Dwarf PACK costs you 15 BP, 10 less than the normal cost. So the cost of the Harumen is 40 BP (or 15 + 25 for the extra abilies).

Lacynth40

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Re: Metavariant PACKs
« Reply #7 on: (01:05:42/07-30-11) »
Interesting. Now, is it explained WHY there is that difference? Like, the effects the race or infection has on the attribute package you allocated? If that were the case, then you might be able to skip the difference between base race, and metavarient... Sorry, just thinking while typing. I take it you still need the base book for other things, like what the races do other than just attribute fixing. Like a troll having +1 to reach, and natural armor.
"Remember, you can't have manslaughter without laughter."

"If violence begat violence, in every case, every human on the planet would instantly devolve into gibbering murderers in a day."

Lacynth40

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Re: Metavariant PACKs
« Reply #8 on: (01:09:53/07-30-11) »
Just going through this, and it occured to me... A ghoul could make a HELL of a Druid.... I mean, no negative to Int, and a bonus to Will that would make most dwarves envious... Top it off with that kind of strength and body, and you have a Druid that just won't go down.... And eats you afterwards.
"Remember, you can't have manslaughter without laughter."

"If violence begat violence, in every case, every human on the planet would instantly devolve into gibbering murderers in a day."

FastJack

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Re: Metavariant PACKs
« Reply #9 on: (09:53:13/07-30-11) »
Well, per my previous example, a Dwarf has Thermographic Vision, a bonus against Pathogens/Diseases and the attribute modifiers. A Harumen has Low-Light Vision, Metagenetic Improvement (Agility), Monkey Paws, Prehensile Tail, Unusual Hair (Body Hair) and the same base Dwarf attribute modifiers. The Metagenetic Improvement (Agility) means they get a +1 to their base Agility score as well.

beowulf_of_wa

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Re: Metavariant PACKs
« Reply #10 on: (01:37:24/08-11-11) »
Meaning that the Build Point costs for the Variant races is a set cost, just like the base races. I only tacked on the PACK differential to the cost.

If you build a dwarf using normal Character Creation rules, it will cost you 25 BP for the race. If you build a Harumen with those rules, it will cost you 50 BP.

Under the PACKS, choosing the Dwarf PACK costs you 15 BP, 10 less than the normal cost. So the cost of the Harumen is 40 BP (or 15 + 25 for the extra abilies).

i thought that you only had to pay the BP cost of one not both, and that also meant you couldn't stack the bonuses from both the dwarf and variant.
if they do stack, does that mean a harumen has both low light and thermo vision?
and if not, why pay the bp for both?

RAW in runner's companion pg 71 says you only pay the BP for the variant

or am i totally missing something?
Carpe Noctem (seize the night)
Carpe per Diem (seize the pay), Carpe Dentum (seize the teeth), Carpe Denim (seize the pants)
Carpe Panem (seize the bread/capital)

no, i won't "just get over it."

NERPS!! for idiocy! NERPS!! for the minty fresh feeling! NERPS!! for gods! NERPS!! for guard duty!

FastJack

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Re: Metavariant PACKs
« Reply #11 on: (07:43:21/08-11-11) »
I wasn't adding on the BP as extra, merely looking at the difference in cost between BP in character creation and applying the same difference for the PACK.

beowulf_of_wa

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Re: Metavariant PACKs
« Reply #12 on: (10:28:09/08-11-11) »
fair enough,,

hate when i go blind like that,
Carpe Noctem (seize the night)
Carpe per Diem (seize the pay), Carpe Dentum (seize the teeth), Carpe Denim (seize the pants)
Carpe Panem (seize the bread/capital)

no, i won't "just get over it."

NERPS!! for idiocy! NERPS!! for the minty fresh feeling! NERPS!! for gods! NERPS!! for guard duty!

Katrex

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Re: Metavariant PACKs
« Reply #13 on: (07:18:20/12-04-11) »
I really dont get this at all.
 
lets take
Pixie**     -25      -3      2      2      -3      2      1      1      2      0
Sasquatch     40      5      0      0      4      0      0      0      0      0
a sasquatch would cost  90 in stats -20 in flaws (who knows what the other bonuses would be)
but lets assume 80 total bp and it costs us 40 to buy. So that nets up 40 profit.
That would imply going pixie would be cheaper to hand build?
A pixie would be better if you made it yourself. I somehow doubt that, how much are you assuming flight and concealment are worth, because if you were to make them in to qualites id say they were at least 15 bp each at least.

FastJack

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Re: Metavariant PACKs
« Reply #14 on: (11:44:00/12-04-11) »
I really dont get this at all.
 
lets take
Pixie**     -25      -3      2      2      -3      2      1      1      2      0
Sasquatch     40      5      0      0      4      0      0      0      0      0
a sasquatch would cost  90 in stats -20 in flaws (who knows what the other bonuses would be)
but lets assume 80 total bp and it costs us 40 to buy. So that nets up 40 profit.
That would imply going pixie would be cheaper to hand build?
A pixie would be better if you made it yourself. I somehow doubt that, how much are you assuming flight and concealment are worth, because if you were to make them in to qualites id say they were at least 15 bp each at least.
As before, I'm basing the costs not off the specific bonuses/penalties that the race gives you, but as they created the PACKs for the other races, where it's a matter of how it stacks up to the basic stats and such. Sure, the Pixie is extremely cheap at -25 with the PACKs system, but if you use it, then you cannot use the attribute kits I listed because the adjustments would take them below the minimum attributes. So you're really restricted in the type of Pixie character you can create with PACKs.