Author Topic: Move By Wire clarification  (Read 4869 times)

Mäx

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Re: Move By Wire clarification
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2011, 06:41:33 AM »
Of course, if all three bonuses of MBW scale with rating, you're still looking at +3 dodge and +3 REA for MBW3 over WR3, for 75k.
+3 to dodge is only usable if you have dodge skill at 6 and the +6 to REA is in most cases totally excessive(normal max is 9 after all)
And as i said that 75K is almost enought to get alpha ware wired reflexes which frees up a ton of essence.
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Chaemera

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Re: Move By Wire clarification
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2011, 06:55:47 AM »
Of course, if all three bonuses of MBW scale with rating, you're still looking at +3 dodge and +3 REA for MBW3 over WR3, for 75k.
+3 to dodge is only usable if you have dodge skill at 6 and the +6 to REA is in most cases totally excessive(normal max is 9 after all)
And as i said that 75K is almost enought to get alpha ware wired reflexes which frees up a ton of essence.

I agree on the 75k vs alphaware trade off.

And while the total +3 dodge is only fully useable if you already have Dodge 6, it guarantees that no matter the situation, you will have the highest modified Dodge you can have (ie, at Dodge 2, you have Dodge (3), Dodge 4 becomes Dodge (6), etc). And, it means that you only need to bring your REA up to 3, if you know you're going for MBW3. I can live with REA 3 (7) (MBW2) from game start to the point of getting the money/connections for MBW3. For many street sams, that probably frees up 20 - 45 BP* to stick elsewhere (granted, some of that's going to the MBW 2...).

*Sample Street Sam in SR4A has REA 5 (7) due to WR2, going with MBW2 (costing an extra 10 BP, plus Restricted Gear at 5 BP), you can lower REA to 3 (freeing 20 BP). This is a net gain of 5 BP, which can go straight into Dodge, giving an effective Dode 1 (2). And that still leaves 1 BP which could go into Gear or Contacts.
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Bradd

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Re: Move By Wire clarification
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2011, 07:11:00 AM »
Maximum modified skill rating is rounded down, just like maximum augmented attribute rating, so you'd need at least Dodge 2 to benefit from the MBW bonus. (See p. 68, SR4A, which notes that the maximum possible skill rating is 7 (10) with Aptitude.)

Chaemera

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Re: Move By Wire clarification
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2011, 04:59:03 PM »
Maximum modified skill rating is rounded down, just like maximum augmented attribute rating, so you'd need at least Dodge 2 to benefit from the MBW bonus. (See p. 68, SR4A, which notes that the maximum possible skill rating is 7 (10) with Aptitude.)

Point, though set beside the remaining advantages previously laid out, I don't think it changes the general advantages of MBW vis a vie WR.

The biggest counterpoint is the relative cost of going with alphaware WR to free up Karma for other important character aspects. At 64k for alpha WR2, it's still cheaper (nuyen) than the MBW2. Then, it boils down to whether you need the 0.6 Essence from alpha-WR2 or the 11 BP that MBW2 frees up. The 11 BP assumes you're keeping at a final, augmented Reaction of 7.
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Dakka

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Move By Wire
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2011, 11:16:20 AM »
The Move By Wire system in Augmentation (p. 40) says it "confers a bonus of +2 to the character’s Reaction attribute, +1 to the character’s Dodge skill rating, and +1 Initiative Pass per point of rating."  It occurred to me building my new character that the bonus can be read two different ways.  Either it gives +2 reaction and +1 dodge total and then 1 IP per rating point OR it gives +2 reaction per rating, +1 dodge per rating, and 1 IP per rating.  I'm wondering which interpretation is correct.

hemgath

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Re: Move By Wire
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2011, 11:32:32 AM »
It's the second:
+2 reaction per rating, +1 dodge per rating, and 1 IP per rating

It's strange i don't find the subject who speach about that in this forum... maybe i dream...

Major Doom

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Re: Move By Wire
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2011, 11:50:14 AM »
The Move By Wire system in Augmentation (p. 40) says it "confers a bonus of +2 to the character’s Reaction attribute, +1 to the character’s Dodge skill rating, and +1 Initiative Pass per point of rating."  It occurred to me building my new character that the bonus can be read two different ways.  Either it gives +2 reaction and +1 dodge total and then 1 IP per rating point OR it gives +2 reaction per rating, +1 dodge per rating, and 1 IP per rating.  I'm wondering which interpretation is correct.

The Move By Wire issue has been covered before (see Move By Wire clarification).  I've read through the thread myself, since I had concern over how to interpret it as well.  Personally I think the cyberware operates as you described in the first example (+2 reaction and +1 dodge total and then 1 IP per rating point), since the grammatical structure of the sentence supports this, rather than getting those bonuses per rating.  Plus the fact that if the cyberware does grant those list bonuses per rating, then it would drive a character's Reaction Attribute beyond the maximum.  But this was pointed out in the aforementioned thread, yet the popular consensus is to opt for the all bonuses per rating.  Nevertheless, since there is no errata or developer oversight on the matter, the topic is really going to endure as a debate.
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hemgath

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Re: Move By Wire
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2011, 11:58:50 AM »
It's strange i don't find the subject who speach about that in this forum... maybe i dream...

haaaaa ! Thx major doom ! I'm not crazy ! it's really on this forum... but the search button don't work when i search "move by wire"...

FastJack

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Re: Move By Wire
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2011, 12:14:54 PM »
The Move By Wire system in Augmentation (p. 40) says it "confers a bonus of +2 to the character’s Reaction attribute, +1 to the character’s Dodge skill rating, and +1 Initiative Pass per point of rating."  It occurred to me building my new character that the bonus can be read two different ways.  Either it gives +2 reaction and +1 dodge total and then 1 IP per rating point OR it gives +2 reaction per rating, +1 dodge per rating, and 1 IP per rating.  I'm wondering which interpretation is correct.

The Move By Wire issue has been covered before (see Move By Wire clarification).  I've read through the thread myself, since I had concern over how to interpret it as well.  Personally I think the cyberware operates as you described in the first example (+2 reaction and +1 dodge total and then 1 IP per rating point), since the grammatical structure of the sentence supports this, rather than getting those bonuses per rating.  Plus the fact that if the cyberware does grant those list bonuses per rating, then it would drive a character's Reaction Attribute beyond the maximum.  But this was pointed out in the aforementioned thread, yet the popular consensus is to opt for the all bonuses per rating.  Nevertheless, since there is no errata or developer oversight on the matter, the topic is really going to endure as a debate.
Nothing pushes an attribute beyond the maximum. If, as I believe, the MBW R3 system gives a +6 to Reaction, and the human sammy has a base 5 Reaction, then he can only benefit up to 9 Reaction, but he still gets +3 Dodge/+3 IP. Now, another character that starts with base 2 Reaction would wind up with an 8 Augmented Reaction.

The maximum is set in stone. It doesn't prevent you from loading 'ware and such that theoretically gives you beyond your maximum, it just means you don't receive any bonuses after you hit said maximum (unless the 'ware/spell/effect specifically says so).

Edit: I also merged this with the previous topic so we have everything in one easy to find place.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 12:18:37 PM by FastJack »

Bradd

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Re: Move By Wire clarification
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2011, 04:01:03 AM »
Thanks for merging the threads! As for pushing Reaction limits: MBW 3 is just enough to raise somebody from average Reaction to augmented maximum, Reaction 3 (9). You can get the same result with Wired Reflexes 3 + Reaction Enhancers 3, as I noted in the original thread, and I think MBW is supposed to be equivalent.

Glyph

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Re: Move By Wire clarification
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2011, 09:18:23 PM »
One thing to note: if you plan on starting out with MBW: 2 and upgrading to MBW: 3 later, you can always start with a Reaction of 4 (improved to 8 ), then, when you get the MBW: 3, also get Genetic Optimization: Reaction, which allows your Reaction to increase to 10.

Rockopolis

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Re: Move By Wire clarification
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2011, 09:28:40 PM »
Hey, doesn't the Move By Wire System kill you with seizures?  TLE-x?  Seems like a pretty terrible side effect.
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Glyph

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Re: Move By Wire clarification
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2011, 10:04:41 PM »
No, it makes you slightly more prone to it than other implants, and if you do get it, there is gene therapy for it.  But it is rare, and generally PCs only get it if they take the negative quality for it.

Medicineman

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Re: Move By Wire clarification
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2011, 01:22:35 PM »
Hey, doesn't the Move By Wire System kill you with seizures?  TLE-x?  Seems like a pretty terrible side effect.
That was  a long Time ago
In SR 3
Not anymore in SR4A
(but  You can still have it as a Disadvantage)

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Re: Move By Wire clarification
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2011, 05:58:10 PM »
I figure there is a chance of getting TLE-x if you rack up to much stress on your ware