Author Topic: What exactly can fix, fix  (Read 383 times)

Kesendeja

  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 89
What exactly can fix, fix
« on: (20:09:15/10-09-17) »
During a run, the mage wanted to use Fix to restore a burned document. They also wanted to know if it could repair the damage that time and the elements have done to an item, such as erosion, fading or mildew, and rot. All the spell says is that all of the object must be present, not what condition it has to be in.

Thoughts?

legionof1

  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Reply #1 on: (20:26:17/10-09-17) »
Largely it GM's say for objects that don't have an explicit condition track.

The burned document i would allow but all you would get would be a piece of paper at my table. Writing on paper is purposeful damage/alteration of the underlying material. Points for cleverness though.

Wear and tear i would allow, if the majority of discreet original mass is present. No putting the pyramids back together from sand. But a concrete wall that mostly just crumbled. Knock yourself out. Possibly literally, modern concrete siting at  around 9 on the object resistance table

Reaver

  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 5350
  • 60% alcohol 40% asshole...
Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Reply #2 on: (21:03:11/10-09-17) »
Fix is also good at restoring the condition of an item that has seen 'runner's use. Meaning bullet holes.

Just because you got shot and soaked all the damage doesn't mean there isn't a large, bullet shaped hole in jacket and coat... Or your car/drone for that matter...


Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

SunRunner

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 168
Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Reply #3 on: (08:50:33/10-10-17) »
Normally if no damage resulted the round was stopped, so no whole present is my basic understanding. That how ever does not mean paint is not removed and other obvious cosmetic damage is not occurring. Also they dont deal with the real live details of armor degrades as it takes hit. You can find videos online of vehicles with bullet proof glass and armor installed by security companies being shot up. Most of them while keeping the passengers safe have obviously been shot up. Also bullet proof vests degrade rapidly as they stop bullets and repeated strikes especially in the same general area cause problems quickly.

Mirikon

  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 8549
  • "Everybody lies." --House
Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Reply #4 on: (13:12:20/10-10-17) »
Using Fix on a burned piece of paper is tricky, since ashes could get scattered fairly easily. Still, you could restore the paper to its unburnt state, I guess, if they were all there. The information written on it? Not so much, unless you got MAD hits.

As for rust/erosion... well, the damaged parts aren't there any more. That's part of what rust and erosion does. Mildew/mold is alive, so you might 'fix' damage from it, but the mildew and mold would still be there, so you'd still need to rip stuff out and replace.
Greataxe - Apply directly to source of problem, repeat as needed.

My Characters

Senko

  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2379
Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Reply #5 on: (15:17:33/10-10-17) »
It's an iffy situation though. Sure a rusted generator is missing parts but isn't that kind of the point of the spell your trying to fix the damage done to it. On the other hand if someone damaged the generator but removing parts your creating something out of nothing in the exact same way. Similarly condition track damage usually indicates something is going missing and it does work on that. On yet another hand (maybe I should go with paws so I have four of them) the heal spell doesn't regenerate lost limbs which is sort of the similar boat.

For simplicities sake and because I dislike spells that are largely useless for the purpose their designed for (you can't fix your car because I cut 1mm of this cable out and took it with me as opposed to just cutting the cable) for objects without a condition track I've always tended towards as long as the majority of the object is intact more than 50 percent of it the spell will restore it to its original condition. Of course as others have said that means you wind up with a nice, clean sheet of paper.

Mirikon

  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 8549
  • "Everybody lies." --House
Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Reply #6 on: (15:33:22/10-10-17) »
That's coming up on one of the hard stops of Shadowrun magic, Senko. Creating something from nothing is a big no.

The Fix spell works really well for some things, such as fixing the bullet holes in your ride, or repairing the damage to that bumper and axle caused by running over that troll. If you, say, clipped cables and took them with you, then it would fix any damage it could, but the device broken by the missing cable would still be nonfunctional.

Remember, magic is powerful, but not omnipotent. And I've always found spells like Fix to be better used in the same way as a medkit or stim patches might be. It keeps your gear going during the run, but doesn't necessarily eliminate the need to get it checked over or have maintenance done when you're through.

'Simple' fixes usually lead to large problems once you start expanding beyond isolated incidents.
Greataxe - Apply directly to source of problem, repeat as needed.

My Characters

Senko

  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2379
Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Reply #7 on: (21:03:43/10-10-17) »
Hmm wasn't aware that was a hard stop. Thought they were just raising the dead, time travel and teleporting. More of a soft stop especially with the new loves and fishes spell.

Anyway to be clear my example is more minor missing parts it can fill in up to a point as part of the repairs and that was set at 50% just to avoid the hassle of is this more important or does the person have more knowledge about X. Especially since most things it's important for have condition tracks. It also has to be damage. So as per my example it has to have no condition track and while cutting a bit out of a wire it can fix, removing the wire entirely and properly it can't as nothing's damaged it's just plain missing. Similarly blowing up the car entirely will be too much to repair even if it's technically all there it doesn't have more than 50% intact. If that makes my decision process cleare?

EDIT
There's also a bit of a judgement call on how much of a particular part is missing and whether it counts as part of a larger object or is self contained. For example a computer hard drive these days is more plug and play rather than part of the computer itself and if you cut too big a chunk out of a wire it couldn't fix that either. On the other hand a badly rusted shipping container with lots of small holes and a few large ones in my opinion could be fixed.
« Last Edit: (21:41:25/10-10-17) by Senko »

SunRunner

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 168
Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Reply #8 on: (09:40:52/10-12-17) »
I am mostly with Senko. I get what your saying about Magic is not allowed to created something from nothing, but almost all damage involves removing pieces of what ever was damaged. Bullets making wholes in stuff involves there being less stuff then you started with as a portion of it will basically be removed by the bullet, same for being cut with a sword or bashed with a hammer past a certain point. So if you apply the interpretation too literally spells like fix are largely worthless as they wont be able to fix anything 90+% of the time.

Ultimately its a judgement call by the GM, if most of what you started with is there 50% or more I would probably allow restoration but deliberate damage like writing on paper would be lost. I would also go with the hard drive example where things that are discreet parts could play havoc with complex devices like computers and vehicles. I would let the spell repair wire cuts and such and I would not let the spell be stopped by some one just taking a small clipping of the wire. Removing whole discrete parts like pulling out a spark plug or removing an entire wire harness section would stop the spell in my opinion, or at least the spell would fix everything that is fixable but tis not making a new spark plug outta thing air for example.

Senko

  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2379
Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Reply #9 on: (13:09:18/10-12-17) »
Pretty much where I'm coming from and as I said I dislike spells that are meant to do something but can't. Sure there is damage that doesn't involve loss like tearing a piece of paper in half but most of it your going to see some lost pieces even if its only on a small scale and if you rule that makes the spell fail I think its going to be a lot less fun for the person playing a mage. Recreating a spark plug or wire harness section that's been removed on the other hand is (a) not damage, (b) a discreet part and (c) missing entirely so I agree completely with SunRunner that there it would fail as that's not what the spell does. That's not damage that's the complete removal of a seperate piece designed to be swapped out.

SunRunner

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 168
Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Reply #10 on: (14:13:06/10-12-17) »
To clarify I did say it would fix what it could fix, to give an example some guy shoots out your tires and then pops your hood and steals your alternator cap. Fix wold fix the tires but not create a new alternator cap. So some damage would be repaired but the part that was completely removed would not be fixed. Alternatively using the same example except the guy just cuts some of your Alternator cap hook ups would result in Fix fully repairing the vehicle so it would start and run assuming enough hits were generated.

Senko

  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2379
Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Reply #11 on: (15:53:38/10-12-17) »
Both examples I agree with.

Jareth Valar

  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 78
Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Reply #12 on: (01:16:21/10-17-17) »
OK chummers, what about an archanoarchaeoligist coming across dry and brittle papyrus (or other material) scrolls. Could fix...fix that?  What about the scene from the Stargate movie where Daniel finds the tablet with the 7th symbol broken off and faded away?

Just some more out there hypothetical situations for you (I tend to think outside geometric shapes...more tesseract, less box. :-P)

legionof1

  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Reply #13 on: (02:30:57/10-17-17) »
I would be inclined to allow both examples. Something that has been sealed/buried in some fashion probably has most of its substance physically present, just not in the original form/shape.

However it would depend on the quality of the sealing/burial. Something buried in the dirt without protection will lose substance to insects, earth movement, water, etc. Something in a tomb or container intended for preservation would not.   

SunRunner

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 168
Re: What exactly can fix, fix
« Reply #14 on: (08:33:23/10-17-17) »
It would have limited archaeological applications. Papyrus scrolls would be fixed so you have a nice fresh sheet of Papyrus that happens to be blank, assuming enough hits were rolled as I would probably increase the difficulty due to age. Now engraved stone tablets or metal plaques would get fixed right up with enough hits, same for hieroglyphic carvings on a wall.