[RacoonSF]

Hi!

I'm thinking about building a Shapeshifter (5th Ed.), because I like the concept from a roleplaying perspective.

The problem i got is: they seem to be quite useless in terms of numbers an playability.

As far as I can see, there are few pros and many cons.

Pro:
- some animals are unsuspicious (e.g.dog), so probablby good for infiltrators/stealth characters
- probably good exit strategy for mages (e.g. falconine)
- some increased stat limits

Con:
- high karma cost (dependant on type)
- necessary to raise attributes seperately
- no armor, except through adept powers/cyberware
- very limited ability to carry weapons in metahuman form and still make use of animal form
- contrary to 4th edition: no regeneration (at least as I understand it)
- only very limited use of special abilities in human form (e.g. no bite attack)

So essentially I can only think of a dog/falcon mage or stealth character.
As a mage buying the shapeshift spell for 5 Karma would be a lot better (more aminals to choose from, higher stats through net hits, lower Karma costs).

I can't think of a decent build for a combat character that would not be a lot cheaper karma-wise and stronger by simply picking an adept.
If I start comparing shapeshifter-fighters to a loup-garou or other Infected it's even worse.

Are there any experiences with or tips for shapeshift characters?

Thanks for your input!

[ZeldaBravo]

To be honest, the only reason to be a shifter is if you really really want it (or if you want a prio C Troll...). There is not much more to say.

[Senko]

Yeah I want to play a fox shifter but there's just too many penalties even for me to make it work, and I usually spend a skill point on swimming and computer use as a mage. Remember they also get the uneducated negative quality or whatever it's called automatically.

[Hobbes]

Mechanically no reason to play a shifter.  You're giving up a moderate chunk of resources for less than moderate gains.  I suggest a physical adept character, they seem to pull it off the best.

Plenty of RP reasons to play a shifter. 

http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=20223.msg361986#msg361986

http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=20343.msg364883#msg364883

Or go straight melee build with one of the more combaty forms.  The Minotaur / Bovine shifter has some comedic value as well. 

[gradivus]

 The Minotaur / Bovine shifter has some comedic value as well.

Well, let's see,

24 Attribute points
36/5 Skill Points
Bovine/Minotaur (4)
Adept 2
Piss Poor

25 karma to pay for the shifter/minotaur.

Normally you need to use slot B for a Minotaur (with no special points) or the very valuable A slot (if you want special points).

I can see how being able to exchange the B/C slots and gaining 4 special points for 25 Karma is a laughing matter.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

 The Minotaur / Bovine shifter has some comedic value as well.

Well, let's see,

24 Attribute points
36/5 Skill Points
Bovine/Minotaur (4)
Adept 2
Piss Poor

25 karma to pay for the shifter/minotaur.

Normally you need to use slot B for a Minotaur (with no special points) or the very valuable A slot (if you want special points).

I can see how being able to exchange the B/C slots and gaining 4 special points for 25 Karma is a laughing matter.

Going to have to build one of these just to check it out now

[Hobbes]

I can see how being able to exchange the B/C slots and gaining 4 special points for 25 Karma is a laughing matter.

The hilarious part is when you realize that outside of a really focused melee build Human is still a mechanically better option.

[ZeldaBravo]

I can see how being able to exchange the B/C slots and gaining 4 special points for 25 Karma is a laughing matter.

The hilarious part is when you realize that outside of a really focused melee build Human is still a mechanically better option.

The hilarious part is that this one heavy melee build is the only build in the game where humans are not mechanically best, assuming priority generation.

[RacoonSF]

Thanks a lot for the input. I'll see if I can create something that works.

There are some issues with the rules I'm mit sure about but that's for another topic.

[gilga]

Adepts can turn into animals, as well as mages with the spell shape change you can become any animal you want for example.
So perhaps just play a mage that changes a lot.

[RacoonSF]

Adepts can turn into animals, as well as mages with the spell shape change you can become any animal you want for example.
So perhaps just play a mage that changes a lot.

That's probably the most economic solution but the whole being-an-animal-in-human-disguise roleplay is gone.

[Hobbes]

Thanks a lot for the input. I'll see if I can create something that works.

There are some issues with the rules I'm mit sure about but that's for another topic.

You can typically come out of chargen with a decent Adept, since you can't use Augments.  Bit 'o' Stealth and a melee weapon.  Certainly playable.  You just wind up even more focused.  It gets to be a struggle to add "depth" to a shifter character because so many skills are penalized.  The outdoor skills are good options for "what else do I do?"  and don't require double digit dice pools to be useful. 

[RacoonSF]

So here's one try on a shapeshifter.

Priorities:

A: Attributes - 24 points
B: Adept - Magic 6, 1 rating 4 active skill
C: Metatype: shapeshifter (pantherine, human) - 0 special attribute points
D: Skills - 22 points
E. Resources: 6.000 NY



Attributes (animal form):

Body: 6
Agility: 7
Reaction: 5 (7)
Strength: 5
Willpower: 3
Logic: 2
Intuition: 7
Charisma: 4

Edge: 1
Magic: 6

Initiative: 9 (11) + 5d6

Attributes (metahuman form, human):

Body: 5
Agility: 6
Reaction: 4 (6)
Strength: 5
Willpower: 3
Logic: 2
Intuition: 5
Charisma: 2

Edge: 1
Magic: 6

Initiative: 9 (11) + 3d6

Qualities (positive, 20 points):
- Catlike: 7 points
- Mentor Spirit: Cat: 5 points
- Uneducated (bought off): 8 points

- Balance Receptor: free
- Broadened Auditory Spectrum (Ultrasonic): free
- Low-Light Vision: free

Qualities (negative, 24 points):
- Computer Illiterate: 7 points
- Did ou Just Call Me Dumb?: 3 points
- Flashbacks (every other shadowrun): animals/metahumans shown for entertainment: 7 points
- Poor Self-Control: Thrill-Seeker: 4 points
- Prejudice, Specific (Trolls, Biased): 4 points

Skills:
- Gymnastics: 3
- Perception: 1 (+2 Hearing, + 2 Visual)
- Pistols: 4 (+ 2 Semi-Automatics)
- Running: 1
- Sneaking: 6
- Survival: 1 (+ 2 Urban)
- Swimming: 1
- Unarmed Combat: 6 (+2 Wildcat) (Martial Art Style: Wildcat, Techniques: Finishing Move)

Magic:
- Mentor Spirit: Cat (+ 2 Stealth, Toy with your Prey)

- Light Body: 2 (free)
- Critical Strike (Unarmed Combat)
- Improved Reflexes: 2
- Mystic Armor: 6

Augments:
- none


Weapons:
- Browning Ultra Power with Personalized Grip + 100 Regular Ammo: 8P, AP - 1
- Unarmed Attack: 6 S
- Bite (animal form): 8 P, AP -3
- Claws (animal + metahuman form): 7 P

Armor:
- Armor Clothing: 6 Armor, 5 Thermal Dampening: 3.450 NY
- Armtack (Renraku Commlink): 1.200 NY
- Contact Lenses: 300 NY


I omitted Knowledge and Social for now.

Main problem with this character is armor & damage. I would choos Beat's way to get some more points to spend on adept powers (like elemental strike) but it's not possible with the "Catlike" quality as it would sum up to 27 points.

Any input?

[Kalibos]

I have been wrestling with the same dilemma.  I made a nearly identical shapeshifter to yours, except I used elf for my metahuman.  I had toyed with the idea of using a sniper rifle so I could stay out of melee quite a bit when in metahuman form, but then began to think of using a compound bow.  Problem there is the character is more stealth than strength so not sure it is worth it.  My concept is more of a jungle warrior/eco terrorist type thing though.  Thoughts?

[忍]

Shifters have Regen

Also you could wear critter armor from Howling Shadows.