[brasso]

A Level 6 SIN has "valid biometrics"? (p. 367, SR5) Wouldn't this be a liability, ie. allowing the authorities to find you with a DNA check? Are we saying that these are confined to the SIN chip itself, and not on the database?

[Michael Chandra]

Fake SINs are in the databases I think. And I imagine they're anonymous enough that while validation will confirm them (usually) thanks to error-margins, they're not a perfect match.

[Kincaid]

The biometrics are housed in a specific host (Ares SINs are in an Ares host, etc.), so if someone has your fingerprint, they're also going to need high-level access to the Ares host to match that print with your fake SIN.  For the sake of simplicity, you could simply say that since fake SINs are assembled in a different fashion than real SINs, there's less duplication when it comes to data.  Your fingerprint file is altered in such a way that it only comes up in response to SIN queries, not biometric queries.  Rating 6 SINs are expensive toys (and can break, even given the best of precautions), so I wouldn't go out of my way to make them a liability as a GM.

[Ursus Maior]

It's a difficult topic I presume, given how it's been discussed here lately. It's not entirely clear to me how Catalyst imagines SINs and Fakes to work. They specifically mention high level fake SINs to be planted into databases of the entities they "belong" to (nations and states that is). However that would mean that very good Fakes would also trigger certain routine procedures by "their" governments. First and foremost I would expect a level 6 Fake to generate tax demands, since a tax identification number is an important part of your background story. Without that, large transactions and any (faked) employment could not withstand basic research. So, will the IRS at one point knock at your door and demand a tax-payment from you? I guess making sure that won't happen, is one part of the generation process. Earlier rules for faked SINs had merits and flaws, similiar to living styles (SR3), so these things could happen.

It would make an interesting plot hook, though. As soon as the IRS had contact in person with you, things get interesting. It might burn your SIN, but if you are able to pay and people actually recognize you enacting your fake ID, then this fake might even turn into "the real deal" after all, it's just all a huge system and the believability of information is still evaluated and decided by humans in inter-human communication. Maybe, if your really good, you might be able to convince government agents that the small "quirks" in your fake SIN are actually "age old glitches in the system". Take someone to court for "filing the wrong info under your name" and make them alter the records to perfectly match your real bio-data. Something like that...

[Reaver]

I rule it as "the bio metric data matches close enough to fool 98% of scanners and readers. However, a detailed enough check is going to spot the errors (such as when being booked on a serious crime.)"

So, yea, its going to do the job they paid for it to do.... until they themselves get stupid and do something to flag the SIN. I don't feel the need to punish players for saving up for large, but ultimately limited use gear.

[Xenon]

A Level 6 SIN has "valid biometrics"? (p. 367, SR5) Wouldn't this be a liability...

Yes it would be a liability.

But so is having a legal SIN
(and having an active legal SIN as a shadowrunner is even a negative quality!)
Rating 6 fake SIN is as close as you get to a legal SIN.

Currently not clear what happens if a law enforcement run your DNA and you have both a rating 6 fake SIN and a legal SIN, but if you only have a rating 6 fake SIN it will show up if a law enforcement run your DNA. So yes, it is a liability.

[Xenon]

Legal SIN:
A set of biometric data including DNA, retinal scan, and fingerprints will also be taken and logged into the system, associated with the newly created SIN. All of this information is then registered with two master databases: one maintained by the country that issued the SIN, and the Global SIN Registry (GSINR) controlled by the Corporate Court

National SIN (but this is probably true for all legal SIN as well as fake rating 6 SIN):
biometric data is shared with law enforcement agencies through the Global SIN Registry. This makes it much easier to track a character should a job go sideways.

Rating 6 SIN:
Alternate life; all statistics match; valid biometrics with samples; complete and entirely believable history

[acolyte99]

I don't know how it can plausibly function, but in some miraculous way the ID forger must manipulate the databases so that they answer differently, depending what the question is.

If the manipulated SIN-database is asked "Does Steve Smith (the false ID) have this fingerprint (retina scan, DNA sample etc.)" it answers "Yes". So at points-of-sale, at borders or if a cop checks your fake SIN it comes back with an OK.

If the manipulated SIN-database is asked "I have a fingerprint, retina scan, DNA sample. Show me the SIN that has this fingerprint (retina scan, DNA)" it answers "Don't have anybody matching" .

Through some incredible programming, the ID forger must have found a way to disable the search function of the database(s), when it's used without a name (for this fake SIN). A request with a name will give an OK.

If it were any other way, fake SINs would be quite useless, because you could just as well have real SIN. If a fake SIN wouldn't work this way (don't ask me how the ID forgers do it), every shadowrunner could only run in Tyvek suits und complete masks. If the cops could just search for a fingerprint in the database and the database search function would work normally they find all the old fake SINs, that your runner had, because they all have to use your own real fingerprint (else the SIN checking at borders etc. wouldn't work).

[Emperors Grace]

I think it's not so much "this is him" as these are the "three people with >98% match" and then the others have to be ruled out.  Having more SINs out there that all match might muddy the waters quite a bit and make it harder to figure out.  Also, the original forger could attach the valid biometrics to any number of dead/missing/fake folks to further confuse the issue.

For me, I just assume that most scanners are just looking at the level of "Does Steve Smith (the false ID) have this fingerprint (retina scan, DNA sample etc.)"  and that people will try to forge/erase the old SINs to yet another person (or back to the original person) when they are done with them.

[acolyte99]

The problem with this procedure (erasing after use) is, that you have to contact your forger again (and that would probably cost money again).
And what about using multiple false SIN at the same time?

As I said, I can't imagine how it could plausibly done (except for manipulating the search queries), but a false ID must include a mechanism, that a search with a biometric sample alone will fail while a lookup with the false SIN will deliver the correct answer (the fingerprint that the owner of the false ID has).

If the query with a fingerprint alone could deliver correct answers (let's say 3 real people have fingerprints similar to yours) and your runner had a level 3 fake SIN and two level 6 fake SINs during his career, then the cops would get the answer: " We have 6 SINs with these prints, but two of them have the same DNA".

[Whiskeyjack]

The mismanagement of how SINs work in the game line is exhausting, as is that fluff because it makes no real sense in-setting. The R6 Fake SIN is an item you have to pay a lot of money to obtain, with the purpose of passing off as "real enough" sufficient that you can appear to legally perform certain actions and look like a real person and not a shady criminal when it matters.

The drawback of a low-rating Fake SIN is how the data is off, and how it can appear to be an obvious forgery when exposed to scrutiny. But if you actually get a top-of-the-line R6 Fake SIN, it should not be providing drawbacks comparable to actually taking the SINner quality. It's still a Fake SIN in the end, just a very good one. But the IRS should not be coming after you and the close-to-your-DNA in that file should not be a great danger to you. The biggest risk of an R6 Fake SIN should be probably be the occasion it gets burned because of how big an investment it is.

If you have the National/Criminal SINner quality and an R6 Fake SIN, and they run the Fake SIN, it should come up as the fake in the database.

If you have the National/Criminal SINner quality and an R6 Fake SIN and you leave DNA at a crime scene...yeah it probably should proc your real SIN in the global database, not the fake one. I'd say it would be pretty stupid to make the fake one completely identical to your real DNA - it should really be super close, but not 100% because that would be an unacceptable liability. If your real SIN is any type of corporate, your DNA may not come up in a scan at all depending on who is investigating.

[Xenon]

Crunch-wise a SIN check just asks;
Is this SIN legal. Yes/No.

[Giabralter]

Legal SIN:
A set of biometric data including DNA, retinal scan, and fingerprints will also be taken and logged into the system, associated with the newly created SIN. All of this information is then registered with two master databases: one maintained by the country that issued the SIN, and the Global SIN Registry (GSINR) controlled by the Corporate Court

National SIN (but this is probably true for all legal SIN as well as fake rating 6 SIN):
biometric data is shared with law enforcement agencies through the Global SIN Registry. This makes it much easier to track a character should a job go sideways.

Rating 6 SIN:
Alternate life; all statistics match; valid biometrics with samples; complete and entirely believable history

It's all about the data. For a rating 6 SIN, the forger has been able to acquire valid biometric information and material AND get it into the system rather than fake the numbers. The material and associated biometric information is comparable to the character, but is not a match. Most validation checks are if the data exists, so for a Rating 6 SIN to fail, someone took the time to scrutinize the biometrics.

GATTACA has a good analogy, where most people were focused on the DNA provided rather than does it really match the person.

[Xenon]

Why do you say biometrics does not match?

The book say that rating 5 fake SIN have "valid biometrics for another person (with samples)"
The book say that rating 6 fake SIN have "valid biometrics with samples"

I read this as rating 6 fake SIN have valid biometrics from you, not from another person.


Rating 5 fake SIN is a really Good fit (a very good fake SIN) while rating 6 fake SIN is an Alternate life (as close you get to a legal SIN).

[Mr. Black]

A Level 6 fake SIN is not a liability, it is a gift! Want to get on a ballistic to Europe? I hope you have a Level 6 ID. Need a visa to enter Aztlan legally? You better have a Level 6 SIN. Anyplace you want to be but is well protected will require a SIN and a biometric check. Do you really want to standing inside some secure facility, looking into the retina scan and hearing the alarm go off?

Low level (1-2) fakes probably don't even have your (or any) biometrics, which is why they are easy to crack. Of course low level scanners don't ask for them, just like your current day debit/credit card doesn't. Low level fakes also haven't scrubbed your biometric data. They may also have someone else's biometrics (along with their warrants) so be careful. Low-level ID's are only good for buying legal goods, especially burner commlinks and Low to Middle level rental property. Mid level (3-4) SINs probably have finger/palm print and/or retina data attached. And mid-level scanners ask for one or both. The biometrics are used to say, yes, you are the person on the ID. If the police pull you over, they will scan your ID, and have you place your finger in a fingerprint reader. It will check both your ID and your print against it's database, looking for warrants. If you don't have any that match your ID or fingerprints, you may/may not get a ticket. If you do have warrants, you are getting a free ride downtown. And for 10,000 nuyen, your personal data specialist better make sure you don't. That is part of the fee, scrubbing your data. At high level, your PDS has placed all your biometrics in the database, And yes, you want them on file, so that when the Rating 5-6 DNA scanner asks said database, it agrees. If you are attempting to enter the departure lounge of El-Al, or a BOA sub-orbital, they are going to run full biometrics, maybe even a DNA test. You better get to the airport 4 hours ahead of time. If your ID is not up to snuff, you will be heading to a cell and meeting a man with a rubber glove and electro-knucks. Heck, the Israeli's would run DNA scans in their airports now, if the results were quick enough.

Now of course, if you are committing crimes and are so foolish as to leave DNA/prints behind, you are in trouble. First, stop running the shadows in an armored vest and matching G-string. Act like a professional and shave that fushia Mohawk. If you still (unprofessionally) leave some evidence behind, burn your fake SIN. Get hold of your PDS and buy a new one! Any runner worth his or her salt will go through dozens in their lifetime. Unless they buy cheap ones, in which case they will only go through 1-2 before they are caught/killed. The best nuyen you can spend will be on your fake SINs. And one of the best contacts you can have is a PDS, whether it is an individual or an organization. I personally prefer Seoulpa Rings when I am in Seattle. They are very good, very anonymous, and very professional. Outside of the UCAS I can recommend the Koshari. Both of these groups take the time to do it right, both in the construction of their ID's and scrubbing your old data clean. I would stay away from the rest of organized crime, unless you need burner ID. Otherwise try hacker contacts on Jack Point or SeattleSEA. Just make sure you check their references.A bit slower, but a bit better. Unless your new hacker friend is high on Long Haul and Psyche, which most of them are.

For runners, a single fake SIN is not a tool for a lifetime. More like for months. And your fake ID will not pass an in-depth background check. It is not logging your birth data, school data (K-12 and any college), enlistment records, credit data, housing records, etc. Remember that part in almost every crime drama, when the cop says something like, "His ID only goes back 6 years. There's nothing before that." That's you, shadowrunner. If you want ID that will pass a deep check, you better expect to pay a lot more for it, especially if it is going to pass Gupta's Law of Convenient Anomalies. Or have friends in government. You know, the CIA/FBI type of friends. Of course, if you are living in the Barrens and buying at the Crime Mall, you only need some form of ID walking around Downtown Seattle. Good luck, chummers.