[ZeConster]

Isn't that simply recycled from 4th edition, which didn't have Qi Foci?

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

I would permit Qi Foci to stack, yes - with the specific knowledge that you have a hard limit to your maximum bonded foci.  I MIGHT rule, if it looked like someone was doing it specifically to dodge the availability rule, that at game start they could only have one Qi focus per power - and that after game start, they could only have (Magic/2) Qi Foci per power.

[Tarislar]

Why should Qi foci get a benefit that no other focus does?

If I have a Power Focus-1 & I bind it, and then later I have a Power Focus-2 & I bind it, then I "lost" the Karma spent on my Power Focus-1.

Why should Qi foci get to stack a bunch of Force-1 Foci together to get a Force-4 Foci?

[Hibiki54]

Due to a loophole in the rules I would say that for purposes of determining damage value the foci could stack.  However for any test (STR based skill or lift/carry tests) only one focus can affect that test so in these situations, no.

A Force 4 Focus is 1 Power Point. As long as both are active, the character gets the benefit from both which also effects STR based skill or lift/carry tests.

Why should Qi foci get a benefit that no other focus does?

If I have a Power Focus-1 & I bind it, and then later I have a Power Focus-2 & I bind it, then I "lost" the Karma spent on my Power Focus-1.

Why should Qi foci get to stack a bunch of Force-1 Foci together to get a Force-4 Foci?

Because Qi Focus are separate power points or portions of a power point. If I had 2 Force 2 Qi Focus, that is 1 power point. But for each one, I can only have adept powers that cost 0.5 points.

Force = 0.25 points

For example, if I had four Force 4 Qi Foci (0.25 each) and I wanted to get Astral Perception (1 point) as an Adept or Mystic, I cannot do it because one Focus has to equal 1 Point in order to have the power.

[firebug]

The argument isn't about using multiple Qi foci, it's about using multiple to boost the same power.  As in, if I have a F2 Qi Focus for a level of Combat Sense, could I buy another F2 Qi Focus for Combat Sense (to have +2 levels) instead of upgrading my existing focus to Force 4.  The answer I (and most in the thread I think) is no: multiple Qi Foci cannot give PP to the same power.  But I could absolutely have 2 F2 Qi Foci, one for Combat Sense and one for Critical Strike.  Nobody's denying that.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Actually, on mature reflection, they should not stack - because stacking, though it remains a step or two removed from any test (they add to the power, and the power adds to the attribute, and the attribute adds to the test), violates the essence of the 'one focus per test' rule.

[Hibiki54]

If you can find where in the core rules it says that adept powers from different sources don't stack with each other, I would agree with you. Pg 319 under Qi Foci says otherwise. Pg 318 says you can only add the force of 1 foci per test, but the Qi Foci are not used for tests, they are used as power points.

Also keep in mind that if a player had two Force 4 Qi Foci with +1 STR, unless they had 8 Magic they are on grounds for addiction tests.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Wow, you just don't read.

As I just stated:

Actually, on mature reflection, they should not stack - because stacking, though it remains a step or two removed from any test (they add to the power, and the power adds to the attribute, and the attribute adds to the test), violates the essence of the 'one focus per test' rule.

Using two different foci to add to the same power and saying that since they don't add directly to a test, they should count, then demanding that anyone who argues otherwise needs to find you a rule quote that rules against your position, is rules-lawyering at the basest level.  Feel free to play otherwise at your table, but at this point the generally-perceived essence of the game rules - 'One Focus, One Test' - in this particular case also means 'One Focus, One Power'.  Oh, you CAN bind more foci, but only one is going to add at any particular time; though it does not specifically say that multiple Qi Foci cannot add to the same Power (and thus to any and all tests utilizing that power), that Qi Foci are not found in some other section, but instead are found under 'Foci' and are bound by the same rules as all other foci, strongly implies that they are so identically ruled.

Believe me, Hibiki-bo, you haven't rules-lawyered if you haven't rules-lawyered in HERO system, and this is nowhere near the gritty complexity that HERO system is.  If you want to play Super-Sayyan stack-six-foci at your table, more power to you - but overall, non-stacked Qi Foci seems to be the intention.

[ZeConster]

Plus like I said, the line about stacking is recycled from 4th edition, and 4th edition didn't have Qi Foci, so you cannot argue that it's RAI for Qi Foci to stack for the same power based on that line.

[Tarislar]

Due to a loophole in the rules I would say that for purposes of determining damage value the foci could stack.  However for any test (STR based skill or lift/carry tests) only one focus can affect that test so in these situations, no.

DV modification affects the Damage Resistance TEST, so no loophole.  I wouldn't let them stack even in that case.

[Tarislar]

A Force 4 Focus is 1 Power Point. As Because Qi Focus are separate power points or portions of a power point. If I had 2 Force 2 Qi Focus, that is 1 power point. But for each one, I can only have adept powers that cost 0.5 points.

Force = 0.25 points

For example, if I had four Force 4 Qi Foci (0.25 each) and I wanted to get Astral Perception (1 point) as an Adept or Mystic, I cannot do it because one Focus has to equal 1 Point in order to have the power.

I think you need to re-read the rules again.
I'm not sure if your confused or are just not stating the full rule clearly.

There is no such thing as a "Generic" Force-4-Qi Foci
There is an Astral Perception Qi Foci   (Force-4)
There is a Combat Sense-1 Foci  (Force-2)
There is an Agility Boost-1 Foci  (Force-1)

Each Foci is specific to a single power at a specific level of that power.

I'm clarifying because as I read what you've said I'm getting the impression that you think they are "blank" & you just get to pick what power it affects.

Each one is unique & designed for that adept power, NOT for power points.  Not the same thing.

It will give you that specific power or augment your own rating if you already have it & multiple levels are available.

If you can find where in the core rules it says that adept powers from different sources don't stack with each other, I would agree with you. Pg 319 under Qi Foci says otherwise. Pg 318 says you can only add the force of 1 foci per test, but the Qi Foci are not used for tests, they are used as power points.

Also keep in mind that if a player had two Force 4 Qi Foci with +1 STR, unless they had 8 Magic they are on grounds for addiction tests.

You just answered your own question.  Pg.318 says multiple Foci may not affect a single test.  Pg. 319 says Qi Foci contain different adept powers at different strengths.  So ergo different qi foci may not affect a single test.

What does addiction tests have to do with whether something is legal???
Who cares if it has a negative, the same would apply if I wanted to stack a pair of Health-4-Sustaining foci so that I could have a Force-8 Increased Reflexes spell on me for 5D6 at initiative.  And that isn't legal either.

[Tarislar]

So a bit of a tangent but this came up as I was reading all this

While I firmly believe that 2 Inc-Str-1 foci will not stack.

What if there was a test that involved 2 different adept powers that both happened to be modified by Qi-Foci.

For Example:
Defense Test and Adept happens to have a Combat Sense-1 Qi Foci & an Increased Reflexes-1 Qi Foci ?
or
Damage Resistance Test and adept happens to have an Increased Body-1 Qi Foci & a Mystic Armor-1 Qi Foci ?

Me, I'm thinking they wouldn't stack for the test, you get 1 or the other.  It might suck, so pick your foci carefully.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

In those cases, I have to admit that I feel it feeds the power into the adept, and goes from there, but I can understand a ruling that opposes that.