Mystica Adepts must make trade offs to be able to access both Adept and Mage spells.
The only sacrifice that is required is loss of astral projection and restriction of access to pp post chargen via initiation only.
remove those two items and mystic adepts AND THERE IS NO REASON TO PLAY A MAGE.
so why bother having it in the rule book?
remove just the requirement to initiate AND THERE IS NO REASON TO TAKE AN ADEPT.
I mean come on guys, are you so blinded by your thirst for unlimited POWAZ that you can't stop and realize that mystic adepts are not meant to be the only choice but one of many choices.
By removing the limitations specifically placed upon them you remove the reason to play an adept or mage.
The choice of a Way OR PP for mystic adepts is one of the specific sacrifices a mystic adept must choose at chargen.
you're removing that limitation and so boosting m.a.'s power and options significantly where they already have more options and access to more power inherently.
just, imho, pure munchkinising.
now you may be upset that I say that, but the pure facts point to this.
"I will remove all checks and balances to ensure that my toon has more options and powaz than anyone else" is inherently borked.
we don't let these kinds of self-serving overreaches fly at our table.
perhaps you do, that's up to you.
but i am free to tell you I think you're off base and why you are.
plain and simple M.A.s are the single most abused "class" in Srun and these types of "poor mystic adepts need more POWAZ at chargen" threads are prevalent across all Srun forums I am party too and they are ALL started by people playing M.A.s that WANT MORE POWAZ dammit.
<sigh>
Will you stop calling us munchkins? This is now the third time I've asked you to stop insulting the rest of us (I don't know about you, but I personally take it as an insult, and the way you're using it is derogatory). I don't care what 'experience' you have with people in other places are. You're taking their reactions and painting us with the same brush, which is getting irritating, to say the least.
Like I said previously (and which you refuse to acknowledge), this isn't about letting mystic adepts buy all the power-points they want for cheap so they can be broken little super-splats. It's about figuring out a balanced cost for letting mystic adepts pick up some power-points after character creation without Initiation, and for most of us its to make it possible for mystic adepts who don't just buy 6 power-points in character creation to acquire those power-points and be equal to other mystic adepts. My personal goal for whatever we all can agree on is a good idea? I want to make a character, a newly Awakened Mystic Adept, who starts with 1 Magic and 1 power-point, who improves from there, while still being able to, in the long run, be equal to other mystic adepts, not forever behind in the rat-race that is equivalency.
Magicians still have astral projection, as well as the unstated bonus of not having to spend their experience everywhere like a mystic adept does. Adepts still gain power-points just by increasing their Magic (they wouldn't have to spend extra like our proposed mystic adept idea), on top of any they might acquire through other means. A mystic adept, while more powerful in 5th Edition as compared to 4th, is still not going to be as good as either a focused magician or an adept of the same level. That's how it works.
As I said in the first part of the response; stop calling us munchkins. Seriously.
You're missing something very important; a mystic adept can buy a Way later, with karma. They can't buy power-points afterwards. Ignoring the fact that the Ways at the moment are almost a complete waste of karma, sans a few specific powers/builds, it's still possible to acquire one. I'm not even sure why you mentioned Ways at all, but oh well.
This conversation, as previously mentioned (in the first post, and later) isn't all about giving mystic adepts lots of power-points just to make them super-strong. I specifically mentioned I didn't want to argue whether or not giving them the ability to buy power-points, I even gave that statement an entire line of its own in the first post. My personal goal (as is the goal of most of the 'munchkins', as you keep calling us) is to let non-optimized mystic adepts actually pick up some power-points without spending their Initiations on it, since they are able to start at that level.
Again, first part of the response. I try to go point by point on these things, and you keep calling us munchkins, so I'm probably going to have to refer to it again.
NONE of us have said we want to remove all of the checks and balances on mystic adepts. No one. Show me a person who actually said what you put in quotes around here, please.
I don't care what you do at your table. If you call wanting to fix the power-disparity between mystic adepts who don't min-max their character creation and the ones who do 'self-serving overreaching' and don't let it happen, that's all good for you. You're free to disagree, sure. Stop insulting us about it, and maybe actually read what we write so you can see our real motivations.
Yes, mystic adepts can be easily abused, if you hand one off to a person who likes to do that kind of thing. You can do the same with magicians, adepts, a bunch of 'ware, and pretty much anything else in the game as well. Shadowrun isn't a perfect system. In the end, if you play with people who like to abuse mystic adepts, it's your choice to play with them. Even if you don't allow mystic-adepts, I bet they'll still abuse whatever other character-type they make, be it a super-face elf adept or elf summoner, tank-troll with 40-something armor when he rolls out of bed, a character who can run faster than a car, or what-have you.
By the way, I'm the one who started this topic; I'm not playing a mystic adept in any game, online or at a table. See that comment I made in the beginning about 'painting us all with the same brush'. I personally don't want to play a mystic adept who starts with 6 power-points and 6 magic (see the second paragraph, where I mentioned what I want to play), but I also don't want to be stuck at a weaker level than everyone else for ever and ever, just because I can't improve my power-points like the mystic adept who started with 6 somehow did.
On top of that, NOBODY said they want more powers for mystic adepts at chargen (in this thread, at least). No-one. Take a good long look. All most of us want is that mystic adept who starts with 1 power-point to be able to get 6 eventually, just like the mystic adept who started with 6. That's not breaking the game, that's making your character as capable as one from character-creation.