NEWS

Street Scum vs. Standard Character Creation

  • 22 Replies
  • 12884 Views

enderci

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 11
« on: <10-16-14/2220:41> »
I've been perusing a lot of posts of this board, and I've been seeing a lot of street scum level games or characters posted on these forums. That's not to say that I don't see the normal level of character generation, but I've also seen a lot of street scum. My question is, do you guys tend to see that as a better starting level for characters? Is it a preference thing, an issue of balance, or just that experienced players tend to need the extra challenge? I'm getting ready to GM my first game in SR5 (and I haven't played in about 3 years), and one of my two confirmed players has never played Shadowrun. Thanks for any input guys

Reiper

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 610
« Reply #1 on: <10-16-14/2234:50> »
From a player skill level aspect, i find street scum to be a bit simpler because you don't have as many options really. The down side, at least for me, is it lessens your ability to do things in more creative ways (I prefer to go more a Leverage or Burn Notice route usually rather than straight up knock down the door).

But it also depends on how you want to do the campaign. If you want them mainly dealing with gangs and stuff, street scum is perfect, but if you want them doing corp runs, you probably need the wider skill set, but that's just my opinion.
Talk
Thoughts
Astral
Matrix
"Hello, my name is Johnson, I would like to introduce you to my associates, Mr. Johnson, Mr. Johnson, and Mrs. Johnson."

firebug

  • *
  • Errata Coordinator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2993
  • Scraping the bottom of the Resonance Barrel
« Reply #2 on: <10-16-14/2246:41> »
If you're asking if it'd be a good "starting point" for inexperienced players, I'd say no.  Always play the game "vanilla" before you do any variants, is how I always feel.  In particular, because the game is set around the idea of the normal level runners, and so it will make it easier for the GM to not accidentally overwhelm the players/characters, which is already relatively easy to do in Shadowrun.

As for why it's so popular, I think it's a flavor and storytelling thing rather than anything with balance or challenge.  A lot of GMs and players like the "Gangland" style or the more grime-and-grit potential from a Street Scum game.  They want the characters to feel like they're working hard to survive, and the lower power level ends up putting more of a focus on the roleplaying.  Essentially, it makes the characters feel more "average joe" than the normal process, which presents you as a character who is already skillful or resourceful enough (if inexperienced) to sell their skills in the shadows.  Street Scum games are more likely to be based around the characters' personal motivations since they aren't quite good enough to just go find a fixer and make some nuyen, and thus need a different reason to be doing what they're doing.

But as I said, I wouldn't say it's a better "starting level".  I'd say it's the opposite, intended for more experienced roleplayers and GMs.  The GM in particular needs to have a more involving story than normal to keep the characters motivated.  They also need to think more about what they're sending the PCs up against--  Because remember, just because the characters aren't as powerful, doesn't mean all the security guards, Knight Errant patrols, critters, and gang members all got less skilled or violent.  Additionally, PCs are likely to be more polarized in skills.  This is both due to a lack of resources and because of the story.  Non-combatants may entirely lack combat skills instead of them just being tertiary or secondary, while combatants and magicians may be "one trick ponies" with only one area of focus (aspected magicians are more common in Street Scum as well, I feel).  This means the GM has to consider each character individually when planning a run, so they don't unintentionally become the weakest link and drag the whole team down.

And, though this is a bit unrelated, for a newcomer, I'd want to offer them the "full Shadowrun experience" and let them make a normal character so they have a bit more to play around with, and thus use and experience when they play.  Let them get a taste of the barrens and squalor for sure, but also let them see the high tech wonders and amazing magical intrigue.
I'm Madpath Moth on reddit (and other sites).  Feel free to PM me errata questions!
Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 9922
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #3 on: <10-17-14/0624:15> »
There are some downsides to Street Scum, because you risk the Adepts and Mages to completely exceed other characters in combat ability. As such I always suggested combining SS with SL and adding a cap to Magic, if you really want a campaign on that level. It can make a really nice campaign, but it requires an experienced GM with a really good story. And don't forget, Shadowrun is dangerous enough already without the power drop, so you risk turning new people off. A D&D mentality is easily altered with a slap on the wrist normally, but in Street Scum it may kill them.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

ZeConster

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2557
« Reply #4 on: <10-17-14/0758:11> »
I thought the BCDEE/CCDDE thing of Street Scum already made Adepts and Mages hard to make builds for?

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 9922
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #5 on: <10-17-14/0802:07> »
The impact of a high Magic rating is quite substantial, especially when you get a Summoner in the mix. Compared to their opposition, an Adept with >15 dice on their gun skills and a high defense, or a Mage who lets a 16-defense 15-offensive Force 6 Spirit slip, are at a completely different level even if they are highly specialised.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Superman

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 110
« Reply #6 on: <10-17-14/0812:18> »
I'm with Micheal. The game was done to play full shadowrunners. Playing lower level is just more problem and the game becomes unbalanced.
Jezz the matrix rule sucks..

firebug

  • *
  • Errata Coordinator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2993
  • Scraping the bottom of the Resonance Barrel
« Reply #7 on: <10-17-14/1212:51> »
The impact of a high Magic rating is quite substantial, especially when you get a Summoner in the mix. Compared to their opposition, an Adept with >15 dice on their gun skills and a high defense, or a Mage who lets a 16-defense 15-offensive Force 6 Spirit slip, are at a completely different level even if they are highly specialised.

What you've said is very true, especially with the spirits thing.  If OP has been gone for a while from Shadowrun, he may not recall how incredibly powerful and problematic spirits are.  A F6 spirit of any kind is a powerhouse and poses a serious threat to people meant to be fighting fully-built runners.  With a Street Scum campaign, nothing that is within reason for any of the characters to be fighting will stand a chance of even damaging said spirit.  Consider RAW, it only takes, what...  3 MAG and maybe a 4 in Summoning for a F6 spirit to be possible at all, and anyone interested in summoning regularly is gonna have more than that.  An NPC aspected magician-summoner could pull that off (though at great risk to themselves with a low success chance).

Point being that it's not just a big threat, but also terribly easy to accomplish for a PC even with Street Scum rules.
I'm Madpath Moth on reddit (and other sites).  Feel free to PM me errata questions!
Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

Glyph

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1661
« Reply #8 on: <10-17-14/2228:46> »
I prefer the default game, but I can see why people gravitate towards the street scum rules.  Some of them may be used to games where you start out as a weak and inexperienced character (like first level in D&D), then eventually work your way up.  The problem is, a beginning shadowrunner is like a beginning doctor - sure, you're just starting out in your career, but you are hardly beginner-level at what you are doing.

Shadowrun has always been a tricky game to balance.  I prefer balancing spotlight time to a vain attempt to balance power levels.  You can make characters all up and down the scale with the default rules.  But that disparity is more pronounced when you use either of the low-powered rules, because they limit some things more than others.

enderci

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 11
« Reply #9 on: <10-17-14/2305:16> »
Thanks for all the responses guys. I do have difficulty remembering how powerful spirits and adepts can be, I just have to keep telling myself that they are batman wizards, and eventually it'll stick. I'm glad to know that the predilection towards street scum that some players/GM's have is not a balance issue, but more of a preference thing.

iamfanboy

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 60
« Reply #10 on: <10-21-14/1937:21> »
I'm gravitating towards the street scum level myself - it seems to be more, well, in-tone with the novels and most of the precon adventures.

The way I always told my friends when making Shadowrun characters (in 3e, which I ran until actually LOOKING at 5e) is that 'typical' shadowrun characters are, in D&D terms, around 9th level - just making a name for themselves, powerful enough that street scum are a threat only in big numbers, and so on.

I'm going to be honest here, I have NOT run 5e, and never touched 4e - I've been 3e since it was printed (and hell, I've still got my 1e hardback book, so yeah), and so there are nuances to the rules that may make my suggestions just completely idiotic. Don't be afraid to tell me.

While in a lot of ways magic-based characters being leagues stronger in a street scum campaign makes sense in-universe, (it's one reason that they gravitate towards the shadows and why corps are willing to hire them, SIN or no), making them a touch less world-shaking might be a good idea. Perhaps limiting all spellslingers and conjurers to Magic*1 when casting/conjuring, and having physical drain be at Force>.5? This can be circumvented by spending some Karma later on, to represent stepping from 'apprentice' to 'journeyman'. Not sure how much such a thing should cost, but it should probably be more than just 2-3 runs worth.

Adepts are trickier. Perhaps having them start with Magic*.5, or Magic*.75? Seems restrictive without crippling them, a thing to avoid.

One thing that has me concerned is technomancer versus decker. A street-level decker can BARELY afford the two cheapest cyberdecks, while a technomancer is full-bore whether street or normal. Perhaps a solution like the Adepts, with any starting Resonance being *.5 or *.75, with fewer Complex Forms and/or Skills? I don't know enough about having technomancers to know if that would cripple them or not.

I'm in no great rush to get my own Shadowrun campaign started (still have Deadlands: Hell on Earth in my docket), so I've got no urgency on using these ideas on reducing magic-based characters to their mundane counterpart's level.

Tai-Pan

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Chummer
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
  • Everything is better with lube.
« Reply #11 on: <10-22-14/0940:53> »
My issue with the low powered options in the BBB, their only adjustments they make is to resources and gear availability. Bringing down dice pools in general would have an impact on all characters equally vs current methods.

I think I'll put some work into this and make a more in depth post on the process, it will probably involve an entire priority table.
Troll bioadept with a throwing knife and a lube grenade looking for a good time.

firebug

  • *
  • Errata Coordinator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2993
  • Scraping the bottom of the Resonance Barrel
« Reply #12 on: <10-22-14/0948:46> »
My issue with the low powered options in the BBB, their only adjustments they make is to resources and gear availability. Bringing down dice pools in general would have an impact on all characters equally vs current methods.

I think I'll put some work into this and make a more in depth post on the process, it will probably involve an entire priority table.

You're only looking at "Street Level".  Street Scum changes it so rather than assigning ABDCE, you pick between BCDEE or CCDDE.  This effects all the character archetypes and as a result lowers dice pools a bit as opposed to just changing resources, and doesn't touch gear availability at all.
I'm Madpath Moth on reddit (and other sites).  Feel free to PM me errata questions!
Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

Tai-Pan

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Chummer
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
  • Everything is better with lube.
« Reply #13 on: <10-22-14/1003:05> »
I'm aware of the difference.

Even then it doesn't reduce relevant dice pools significantly. All it does is reduce the range of skills characters have access to. Lowering the starting skill cap to 4 would keep them from being hyper specialized to the point where they are equivalent to normal starting characters in their chosen role.
Troll bioadept with a throwing knife and a lube grenade looking for a good time.

MadBear

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 198
« Reply #14 on: <10-22-14/1009:31> »
I think it's fun to sometimes start a campaign at Street Scum level, run a couple of quick runs, and then suddenly skip ahead a year, bump up the characters a to Standard or Prime level. You would be surprised how differently people build characters if resources are given that way instead of all at once. Much more organic and story oriented to me...
I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a telescope. Which is what I do, and that enables you to laugh at life's realities.
-Dr Suess