[8-bit]

Ouch, if that is the case, maybe Banishing has some value, better than just blasting them with spells & other spirits.

Banishing is WONDERFUL, dude.

How do you figure?

Well, I could see a high Edge or high drain resist combo working well with Banishing. The spirit only resists with it's Force (+ Summoner's magic, if bound), so it is fairly equivalent to Summoning. That means that you can Edge the Banishing roll (if you have maybe 5+ Edge) and Edge the Drain roll to deal with higher Force spirits much more easily than other means. Or, if you just have a high drain resist pool to begin with, hope for the best and try to get rid of some services. Against weaker spirits, it's easier to make them lose more services, and against higher spirits, those spirits are less likely to have a large amount of services.

So, I could see it being useful. The drain is still pretty problematic though.

[Kincaid]

On a related note: how do people normally deal with the patrolling watcher or low-force spirit that's just there to die and so the mage can trigger the alarm?

The knock on Banishing has always been that unless you're very invested in it, it's more efficient to simply cast a spell that does enough damage to disrupt the spirit, and putting points in Spellcasting is more universally helpful.

[JackVII]

On a related note: how do people normally deal with the patrolling watcher or low-force spirit that's just there to die and so the mage can trigger the alarm?

That was actually the genesis of my OP, I was hoping a particular reading of banishing would allow for a way to get past a spirit set to guard the only reasonably accessible way into a room without alerting the summoner. As it stands now, if a single entrance is the only way in somewhere and a spirit is guarding it, stealth is pretty much out.

[Whiskeyjack]

Well, I could see a high Edge or high drain resist combo working well with Banishing. The spirit only resists with it's Force (+ Summoner's magic, if bound), so it is fairly equivalent to Summoning. That means that you can Edge the Banishing roll (if you have maybe 5+ Edge) and Edge the Drain roll to deal with higher Force spirits much more easily than other means. Or, if you just have a high drain resist pool to begin with, hope for the best and try to get rid of some services. Against weaker spirits, it's easier to make them lose more services, and against higher spirits, those spirits are less likely to have a large amount of services.

So, I could see it being useful. The drain is still pretty problematic though.

Yeah, I could see situations where it's a better option vs higher Force spirits than trying to tag them with Stunbolt or even shooting them. To me that's kind of a niche case for Skill points though.

[firebug]

On a related note: how do people normally deal with the patrolling watcher or low-force spirit that's just there to die and so the mage can trigger the alarm?

That was actually the genesis of my OP, I was hoping a particular reading of banishing would allow for a way to get past a spirit set to guard the only reasonably accessible way into a room without alerting the summoner. As it stands now, if a single entrance is the only way in somewhere and a spirit is guarding it, stealth is pretty much out.

Even with more than a single entrance, it can be tough.  With how fast someone in the astral can move, even while still being able to pay attention to things, a single spirit can glance over a number of entrances every turn.  Outside of an initiative order, that can mean you have much less than a second to cross the threshold and get out of the spirit's sight.  And that's assuming it's "astrally walking" at 100 meters per combat turn, not astrally running (which doesn't seem to imply it'd be fatiguing at all) at 5 kilometers per turn.  The spirit might get kinda bored, but their job is easy...  "Look" for glowing things on a field of gray that weren't there before and mention it.  You don't need to be the most attentive to pull it off, since they can't really hide...

Since there's no way to just not show up on the astral, the only thing I could think of would be either figuring a loophole in the spirit's command ("I was told to report people, not drones.") and use that to take out the mage, or to somehow bargain with it, both of which I feel would be the GM handing you a cookie because both seem things that should not be common among security mages at all.

If it weren't for the telepathic link, I'd say trapping the spirit in a mana barrier would work, but...  Well, the link exists so that won't work.  Even the most robotic and literal spirit is aware enough to realize being trapped in a bubble is something they should mention to their summoner.  They are fully sentient after all.  And purely logically, it would prevent them from doing them from doing their owed service, and would be something they'd want to get out of...  And if they can't (that'd be the idea of using the spell in the first place), asking their summoner for help seems like the most natural response.

[ZeConster]

On a related note: how do people normally deal with the patrolling watcher or low-force spirit that's just there to die and so the mage can trigger the alarm?

If they're low-force, wouldn't Concealment from a Force 6 spirit do the trick?

[acolyte99]

It's unclear in 5th edition, if Concealment has an effect on the astral plane.

In 4th Edition we had this sentence in the description of the power: "Concealment also allows dual natured critters to conceal themselves and others from astral detection" (page 293). This implied, that dual-natured critters could use Concealment to hide themselves astrally.

In 5th Edition this sentence is missing. Is it missing intentionally or was it just an oversight or saving space? Nobody knows.

Technically Concealment reduces Perception dice, not Assensing dice.

Edit: Just saw that to see stuff on the astral plane is called Astral Perception, so it is a kind of "Perception test" that the Concealment-Power description mentions.
Additionally: the 4th Edition book Running Wild also had a description of Concealment and it didn't include the dual-natured sentence. I think Running Wild was published after 4th Edition so that this might hint that the sentence was left out intentionally and that 5th edition has just continued this intention.
This again might hint, that it is intended, that Concealment helps on the astral plane.

[Tarislar]

I don't see why it wouldn't help on the Astral too, I mean, a spirit's power is usable by them where ever they go.  It seems odd that they could not use it back on their home plane or where ever they are.

[adzling]

masking?

On a related note: how do people normally deal with the patrolling watcher or low-force spirit that's just there to die and so the mage can trigger the alarm?

That was actually the genesis of my OP, I was hoping a particular reading of banishing would allow for a way to get past a spirit set to guard the only reasonably accessible way into a room without alerting the summoner. As it stands now, if a single entrance is the only way in somewhere and a spirit is guarding it, stealth is pretty much out.

[firebug]

Masking doesn't stop beings from seeing your aura.  Just from reading it.  They still see an aura, and that's the thing that makes it difficult.

[Logarion]

On a related note: how do people normally deal with the patrolling watcher or low-force spirit that's just there to die and so the mage can trigger the alarm?

The knock on Banishing has always been that unless you're very invested in it, it's more efficient to simply cast a spell that does enough damage to disrupt the spirit, and putting points in Spellcasting is more universally helpful.

on a side note... banishing doesn't work anymore on watchers

my way to go around spirits stealthy is mostly mental Manipulation. One Influence Spell and off the spirit goes to the North Pole (because this was his original task and of course he is forbidden to call on his Master).
But (as GM as well as a Player) I normaly tend to not bother with them, if it is not necessary, because they are mostly used in astral security instead of the physical stuff. Magic is still rare and not everyone is a Conjurer, so I think the Wage Mages in a corporation have to split their spirity resources to secure more than just one facility at the same time... so less spirits and less likelyhood to encounter one with the task to "cry if there is something that glows" which could very well be a bug, a Security Guard or a fluctuation in ambient Mana

[adzling]

right, but you can make your aura look like a cat, dog, mouse etc iirc.
So if the spirit's orders are "report back if you see a metahuman" or some other trigger that requires the presence of a person/drone/threat then a correctly masked aura will not trigger it.

Masking doesn't stop beings from seeing your aura.  Just from reading it.  They still see an aura, and that's the thing that makes it difficult.