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So, whatever happened with Denairastas from Earthdawn?

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Sendaz

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« Reply #45 on: <10-25-14/0406:02> »
It is a tough call, seeing as even the IEs can't figure out what the hell he was.

Maybe whatever forces were backing him withdrew their favour or he is stewing in a vat somewhere on call to pop up once more down the road.
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #46 on: <10-25-14/0504:08> »
There's also the matter of whatever was in the box Dunkelzahn left him.

iamfanboy

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« Reply #47 on: <11-01-14/0116:39> »
One interesting thing to think about the Atzlan locus needing blood magic is the difference between blood magic of the Fourth and Sixth Worlds - in Earthdawn, it was self-sacrifice, giving up some of yourself to create a supernatural effect, which even mundanes could use (if I remember blood charms correctly). In Shadowrun, it's exclusively TAKING something from someone else to strengthen supernatural effects (the Great Ghost Dance in the Twist novels aside).

Perhaps the Atzlan locus was originally powered by the blood magic of the Fourth, but became corrupted by the blood magic of the Sixth..? I mean, the gruesome rituals of blood mages come directly from pre-Spanish Atzlan, and the magicians working for Atzlan might have leapt straight to that when trying to activate it, and inadvertently corrupted it into NEEDING the 6th World stuff.

Or maybe it had been used DURING pre-Spanish Atzlan, and despite the dormancy of magic, the sacrifices corrupted it...


And I'm personally a bit sad that Earthdawn is owned by a different company. I like the idea of an interconnected gaming world.

psycho835

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« Reply #48 on: <11-01-14/0525:04> »
From Ancient Files' section on blood magic:
Quote
All uses of blood magic require an expenditure of life force, either from the pracitioner, a willing donor, or a victim as circumstances and uses warrant. All uses of blood magic permanently mark the user physically and mentally, but after the Scourge of the Age of Legends blood magic is roughly split into two distinct practices, Life magic and Death magic.

Life Magic encompasses the original use of blood magic: to seal oaths, boost adept powers, cast spells, empower blood charms, and in other ways sacrificing a bit of your own life energy to gain a greater effect. In the Age of Legend, many workings of magic required an extra boost of magical energy. A practitioner in those days drained small doses of their own life energy to fuel certain talents, items and abilities, taking a bit of damage that can later be healed normally (this is referred to as strain). This practice is functionally identical in some respects to the Sixth World concept of Drain in Shadowrun, indicating that the adept forcefully channels more mana than can be used without effort to cause a magical effect.

Death Magic is originally attributed to the Therans, this is the practice of drawing on the life force of others to power magics; such as when the life forces of slaves are drained to power the locomotion of Thera's great stone airships. Aside from ethical concerns regarding this aspect of blood magic; proponents of those who believe all Blood Magic comes from the Horrors and even attracts them point to the effects of Death Magic. This is, in part, true: Death Magic attracts the attentions of the Horrors. Death magic invariably involves the deliberate sacrifice of a living Namegiver. For an example, the killing ritual of the Hand of Corruption's Assassin branch allows the assassin to temporairily absorb the life force of the victim for increased stealth, before the ritual sends it elsewhere.

Additionally, in "Artifacts Unbound" Frosty (p. 141) knows two versions of "Sacriface" metamagic: bog standard blood magic, and a more refined variant that can be used without rising the background count provided that she sacrifaces either herself or another willing victim.

And then there is the Great Ghost Dance. So both kinds of blood magic are around it's just that... Well, did you seriously expected fraggin' Azzies to be willing to commit ritual suicide if they can just murder a few hundreds/thousands innocent people? ??? C'mon, chummer.
« Last Edit: <11-01-14/0537:00> by psycho835 »

iamfanboy

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« Reply #49 on: <11-01-14/1344:10> »
As I don't have those books, I'll have to take your word for it.

It's also a far cry from the sheer... well, commonality of sacrifice magic in Earthdawn, where every adept knew the technique. Also, as it's one of the ways that non-adepts can fuel magical objects (blood charms), do you think it'd count towards Dunkelzahn's bounty on magic for mundanes?

Or has that bounty been claimed in some book I haven't yet read, too? :p

Crimsondude

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« Reply #50 on: <11-01-14/1936:36> »
It's still active, but the Draco Foundation will only take toxics and blood magicians (and bug shamans) who are on their bounty list.

You can also say that some of those charms have just been replaced by another form of "blood magic" – cybernetic and other unnatural augmentations, i.e. those costing Essence.

Shaidar

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« Reply #51 on: <11-02-14/0447:18> »
This one?

Quote from: Portfolio of a Dragon pg 32
To the first party to develop a magical item that can be used by a mundane.  I leave the medium-sized chunk of orichalcum I keep in my sock drawer at Lake Louise.

Or possibly this one?

Quote from: Portfolio of a Dragon pg 30
To the first party to successfully invent an artificial mechanism capable of producing and maintaining a magical effect with no assistance from a living magician or spirit.  I leave 8 million nuyen for additional research into the fusion of magic and technology.

psycho835

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« Reply #52 on: <11-02-14/0653:15> »
It's also a far cry from the sheer... well, commonality of sacrifice magic in Earthdawn, where every adept knew the technique.

Yeah, but back in Earthdawn, mana level was MUCH higher. In Shadowrun magic appeared, what, 64 years ago?
Also, I seem to recall that Azzies really don't like it when someone plays with "their" toys.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #53 on: <11-03-14/1010:02> »
You're mistaken in regards to sacrifice magic.  In Earthdawn, you could use unwilling others; in Shadowrun, you can use yourself or willing sacrifices.  It's always been that way, but for plot's sake, in Shadowrun the FOCUS has been on the 'unwilling-others' version.
Pananagutan & End/Line

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iamfanboy

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« Reply #54 on: <11-03-14/2241:30> »
and I did just spot something Arleesh said in the Clutch of Dragons book: "We're seeing old adversarial groups that we assumed were dead in the Fourth World that are now revealing themselves again."

That can't refer to the immortal elves, because the dragons have KNOWN about them for how long? As far as we know, there were only two groups who opposed the dragons, other than the dragonblooded elves: The Denairastas and the Therans. The rabble-rousing and leading humans to take down their adversaries seems more Denairastas-style than anything else...

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #55 on: <11-04-14/0046:55> »
... uh ... again, no.  On a couple of points.
Pananagutan & End/Line

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iamfanboy

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« Reply #56 on: <11-04-14/1241:21> »
... uh ... again, no.  On a couple of points.
...Mainly that a few pages later it talks about Harlequin and his vendetta against Ghostwalker, huh? And that the truce between the dragonblood elves and the dragons might be over...

But the anti-dragon sentiment is being borne by the Humanis-type goons, just with a redirected focus. "Who cares if that guy over there has hands the size of my head and a horn, when those THINGS are eating humans and trying to rule the world?" The other dragonbloods have no reason to stick their necks out like Harlequin does, and his actions are late in the game anyway - way after the whole plot begins to stir.

The Black Lodge connection also has potential, particularly because it DOES come from a FASA era where they were strengthening 4th-6th World connections. 

Just because you have a murderous hate-boner for bringing in 4th World connections doesn't mean the rest of us do. I LIKE when a game acknowledges history, whether real or created; nothing made me happier than seeing mentions of Eliohann and reading about Perianwyr and other dragons from old Shadowrun adventures. And while I always thought that Mountainshadow=Dunkelzahn, getting it confirmed was a thumbs up.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #57 on: <11-04-14/1315:59> »
... I'm sorry, where are you getting all of 'just because you have a muderous hate-boner' from?  I enjoy 4th World references, and despite never having even played Earthdawn, I know for a fact that your information is wrong - and this is the second time you've thrown up bad information.

Ever since they laid the rules out for sacrifice metamagic, it has always had the option to be willing or unwilling.  And since you're failing to name them, I guess I get to - the Cult of the Great Hunter was all about the anti-dragon agenda, and is most likely the group which Arleesh - being the Great Dragon particularly concerned with the artifacts and corruption of the 4th world - was speaking about.

So seriously - check your facts before posting as though you had.
Pananagutan & End/Line

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iamfanboy

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« Reply #58 on: <11-04-14/1405:21> »
Mmm, true, but I'd discounted the Cult of the Great Dragon Hunter because they're inherently linked to Verjigorm (the Great Dragon Hunter hisself!), and the Horrors aren't even hinted at as a threat in any material published since Dunkelzahn offed himself - well, that I've got access to anyway. If they were involved, I'd expect to hear more noises about Cthulhuesque cults trying to bridge the gap, as well as that guy from Harlequin2/Threats2, what was his name? Something Black?

Whereas the BL/Denairastas connection is hinted at multiple times, and they fit the bill as enemies of dragons as well as anyone.

Ancient Enemies of Dragons that could be stirring:
1) Therans
2) Cult of the Great Dragon Hunter
3) their children/Dragonblooded elves
4) Denairastas

Therans are another possibility but as the Atlantean Foundation seems almost more academic than political, and the other organizations who look for Theran artifacts seem bent on using them for their own power rather than resurrecting the 'glory days' I discounted them as well.

And whether the rules for sacrifice metamagic allow willing or unwilling donors, from the start it's been restricted to NPCs because of the moral implications, and even in the 5e book it says, "Be cautious when allowing PC blood mages" to GMs. Damfool idea to even hint at allowing it to PCs; they sure don't talk about toxic or insect shaman PCs...

Whereas in Earthdawn, it's available from the start. Sacrifice some of your damage capacity and spend some silver, and you too can have on-call fiery wings which let you fly to the floating castles of Thera! Or if you need to, take some damage to bump up your chances of performing that dangerous stunt! There are no moral implications, and I can't recall reading much of anything about unwilling donors in the books. Maybe my memory has just failed in my old age, (and I don't have the books close to hand) but even the Therans didn't use unwilling blood magic sacrifices... even the kaer magic didn't require it, and if anything did it would be that. The only ones who used unwilling donors were Horrors - and I always got the feeling they did it more for the horror it would inspire than because they had to...


And, er, the 'murderous hate-boner' line is one I use when I'm trying to actually damp down the rhetoric of an argument; I always laugh so hard when using it that I... well, I'm sorry for using it.

Sendaz

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« Reply #59 on: <11-04-14/1429:42> »
what was his name? Something Black?
Believe you are referring to Mr. Darke.

While hell bent on trying to usher in a new age of pain under his masters, say what you will about the man, but he had style and knew how to make a decent Old Fashioned.

Edit:
(with apologies to Culture Beat)

Call him Mr. Horror
call him Mr. Wrong

call him Mr. Darke(Darke
Darke).
Call him Mr. Horror
call him Mr. Wrong
..
call him insane
(insane
insane) insane.
« Last Edit: <11-04-14/1532:42> by Sendaz »
Do you believe in a greater WIRELESS, an Invisible(WiFi) All Seeing(detecting those connected- at least if within 100'), All Knowing(all online data) Presence that we can draw upon for Wisdom(downloads & updates), Strength (wifi boni) and Comfort (porn) or do you turn your back on it  (Go Offline)?