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Immunity to normal weapons and possession

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Attilatheyeon

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« on: <09-14-14/2130:52> »
So i've been reading through the books, and it looks like possession spirits don't have immunity to normal weapons. It's listed under the materialization power for those spirits, but the only thing i can find under possession is that both the spirit and the possessed are duel beings. 

If i'm wrong can someone explain where it's listed.

MWillner

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« Reply #1 on: <09-14-14/2205:10> »
Under True Form, the spirit gets Materialization, which gives Immunity to Normal Weapons (page 196 of Street Grimoire and page 398 of the main rules).

Both Hybrid Form and Flesh Form state that the respective form each gain Immunity to Normal Weapons (page 196 of Street Grimoire).

Attilatheyeon

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« Reply #2 on: <09-14-14/2225:54> »
Um i'm asking about possession not inhabitation.

MWillner

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« Reply #3 on: <09-15-14/0017:57> »
Sorry, frain bart.

You're right, possession doesn't say anything about Immunity to Normal Weapons.

Namikaze

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« Reply #4 on: <09-15-14/0038:38> »
I believe that the Immunity to Normal Weapons for possessed vessels was removed in 5th edition.  Not sure if this was intentional or not.  I'm inclined to think that this is an intentional change though, as possession was a real beast in 4th edition.  Additionally, the vessels are still ultra-powerful, but without the Immunity to Normal Weapons they are at least not the immortal death machines of 4th edition.
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Lucean

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« Reply #5 on: <09-15-14/0248:31> »
But I still hope that they maybe change something around.
Since Shedim have Possession they have become too weak for the threat they are supposed to be.
And with Insect Spirits having the chance to get ItNW in addition with getting complete Force as modifier for their attributes instead of F/2, they got too strong in comparison to Shedim.
I think bugs could be fine as is, it's the Shedim that have become problematic according to the fiction.

RHat

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« Reply #6 on: <09-15-14/0255:29> »
I believe that the Immunity to Normal Weapons for possessed vessels was removed in 5th edition.  Not sure if this was intentional or not.  I'm inclined to think that this is an intentional change though, as possession was a real beast in 4th edition.  Additionally, the vessels are still ultra-powerful, but without the Immunity to Normal Weapons they are at least not the immortal death machines of 4th edition.

I'd be inclined to argue it's an over-nerf, given the other changes made to possession and other changes in the system, but that's just me.
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Namikaze

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« Reply #7 on: <09-15-14/1144:17> »
Those are fair points - perhaps the shedim should get more oomph behind them.  I know there's an e-book scheduled to add more magical stuff.  Perhaps we'll see something to expand the magical threats?
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Attilatheyeon

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« Reply #8 on: <09-15-14/1542:22> »
Ok, so i'm not just missing it. This is actually good news, i've felt possession was too powerful, so now that they don't get immunity, i feel like i can play a voodoo magician at some point :)

Mithlas

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« Reply #9 on: <09-15-14/1611:06> »
I believe that the Immunity to Normal Weapons for possessed vessels was removed in 5th edition.  Not sure if this was intentional or not.  I'm inclined to think that this is an intentional change though, as possession was a real beast in 4th edition. Additionally, the vessels are still ultra-powerful, but without the Immunity to Normal Weapons they are at least not the immortal death machines of 4th edition.
I don't believe possession spirits ever had immunity to normal weapons, just the extremely powerful stat boosts.

Granted, I can't find anything that says they do, but given that they've been explicit about what does get immunity in the past, I'm inclined to think that it was never intended to have that.

Namikaze

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« Reply #10 on: <09-15-14/1702:32> »
I don't believe possession spirits ever had immunity to normal weapons, just the extremely powerful stat boosts.

It's in the sidebar of Street Magic:

Quote from: Street Magic, page 102
When a spirit possesses a vessel, the combined being that results is dual-natured, has Immunity to Normal Weapons (p. 295, SR4A), and boasts all of the spirit’s powers and skills.
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Attilatheyeon

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« Reply #11 on: <09-15-14/1738:58> »
I like that they dont get immunity. Makes materialization spirits feel better. I've always felt they were "faster" and less unwieldy. But seemed to lack the oomph that possession spirits had.

Well now i can try to retire my character after SG goes live for missions and go voodoo all the way! ;)

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #12 on: <09-16-14/0152:52> »
I like that they dont get immunity. Makes materialization spirits feel better. I've always felt they were "faster" and less unwieldy. But seemed to lack the oomph that possession spirits had.

Well now i can try to retire my character after SG goes live for missions and go voodoo all the way! ;)

What those who complained about possession spirits before neglected was that possession spirits basically turned the magician into one giant target to focus fire on whereas materialization spirits created one or more additional combatants on the field. By that virtue alone, no matter how one ruled the affect possession had on attributes, materialization was more powerful.
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Lucean

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« Reply #13 on: <09-17-14/0243:15> »
Well, you had the opportunity to take one member from team enemy and make it a member of your team.
So instead of just getting +1 on your side, you also gave -1 to the enemy. Sounds much more beneficial to me, although it was harder to achieve.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #14 on: <09-17-14/1016:13> »
Well, you had the opportunity to take one member from team enemy and make it a member of your team.
So instead of just getting +1 on your side, you also gave -1 to the enemy. Sounds much more beneficial to me, although it was harder to achieve.

There were ways to do that without possession powers.
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