[Shrazkil]

Ok , so I want to make sure I have the steps down for a hostile touch spell attack.

Let's use a force 12 punch spell as the example :
First I need to make an unarmed attack as either a complex action, or simple action if reckless cast. I need at least 1 net hit on an unarmed attack to be able to cast the spell, does the unarmed net hits affect the spell on any way? Does the unarmed attack do any damage? Do I then also roll a magic + sorcery[force] roll and that is what will affect extra DV on the spell?

My assumption is the unarmed is only there to make sure I hit, but I'm not sure if the opposed reaction + int roll for both unarmed and punch spell. So assuming I score an unarmed hit and let's say I get 6 hits on the sorcery + magic test, and opposed gets. 2 hits, I would have a 16dv -12ap stun hit versus opposed body+armor(-12), let's say they roll 3 hits, so they take 13 stun damage?

Is that about right ?

Since I only got 6 net hits any drain damage would be stun then correct?

[Ryo]

Punch is an exception to the normal rules, at it is the only Indirect Touch Spell.

Normal Rules:

You roll Unarmed + Agility +2 for a Touch Attack, they roll Reaction + Intuition. Net hits don't matter, and on a tie, you win.

You roll Spellcasting + Magic, they resist with Body or Willpower (+Counterspelling, if available)

Punch:

You roll Spellcasting + Magic, they roll Reaction + Intuition (+Counterspelling again). Net hits add to your DV.

They roll Body + Armor -Force AP to soak damage.

It's better to think of Punch as a point blank ranged spell than a melee attack, since you don't have to make an Unarmed test. If you did, the opponent would be dodging twice; once against your unarmed, and again against Punch, which doesn't make sense.

[Ryo]

So no counterspelling capable for punch? No unarmed needed as well? Interesting!

Counterspelling applies to Punch as well. Reaction + Intuition + Counterspelling, same as if they were dodging a flamethrower or lightning bolt.

But yes, no Unarmed needed. It is the sole exception among the Touch spells because it already has a Defense test.

[MWillner]

From what I can see, for the Direct Touch (DeathTouch, etc.) attacks, you don't need to do a Unarmed Touch attack, you can try to kick their  head in with a full-on Unarmed Attack, with the magic damage being in addition to (and determined after) the regular damage.

[Reaver]

From what I can see, for the Direct Touch (DeathTouch, etc.) attacks, you don't need to do a Unarmed Touch attack, you can try to kick their  head in with a full-on Unarmed Attack, with the magic damage being in addition to (and determined after) the regular damage.

Sadly no.

Either you are casting a spell or making an unarmed attack. Not both.

So either they take damage from the death touch spell, OR the unarmed attack.

[MWillner]

Page 281. "You don't need to see these targets, but you might have to make an unarmed attack to make contact with an unwilling target." This seems that you need to make an unarmed attack even if it is just to touch the target (if it is unwilling). So that would mean either you cast the spell in one complex action and trigger it with an attack in the next, or the attack is part of the spell casting action (the "Somatic" component).

[faffner]

Ok , so I want to make sure I have the steps down for a hostile touch spell attack.

2: How does the Indirect Touch spell, Punch, work?

In the specific case of a touch-range combat spell, the Spellcasting test takes the place of the Unarmed attack. So you only need to make the Spellcasting Test, which is defended against by the target's Reaction + Intuition.

I find this answer odd, or a mistake, since on page 282, under Range, the book says "Some spells require you to Touch (T) the target—if the target is unwilling, you’ll need to make an unarmed attack against the target"

And on Page 187, under Touch-Only Attack  "If the intention of an attack is to simply make contact, whether to discharge a spell, plant a RFID tag, or just playing tag, than the attacker gains a +2 dice pool bonus. Additionally, if all that is needed is contact, the attacker and not the defender succeeds on a tie."

So either both of these entries referencing Touch Spells are wrong, and needs serious errata, or As part of casting a touch spell, you first make an unarmed attack +2 dice vs Target, and if you succeed, then you make the spellcasting vs their reaction + Intuition since it's Indirect, then they get to resist damage (which granted is a lot of dice rolls for Punch, as one of the only indirect touch spell).

Which one is actually the correct procedure?

In the specific case of a touch-range combat spell, the Spellcasting test takes the place of the Unarmed attack. So you only need to make the Spellcasting Test, which is defended against by the target's Reaction + Intuition.

Fin.