NEWS

Small unit tactics and Leadership skill

  • 20 Replies
  • 19682 Views

Quatar

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 414
« on: <07-27-14/1753:24> »
Ok, I'm utterly confused...

So I'm looking into making a face and in a thread on the general forum about that topic I came across someone mentioning using Small Unit Tactics and Leadership to help the team during combat (instead of trying to shoot them yourself).

Since that sounds like something new and interesting I looked into Run and Gun and... as I said, utterly confused.

The first thing I noticed was it uses Intuition+SUT and so something that does not necessarily mesh with face naturally.

p. 98 says among other things:
 The team
leader may use their Leadership skill to direct one team
member  per  maneuver  as  described  on  p.  142,  SR5).

Huh, What?

I've no idea what that sentence is supposed to mean. Do I need Leadership to use the Small Unit tactics? if so, what and when do I roll?

Namikaze

  • *
  • Freelancer Ltd
  • Prime Runner
  • **
  • Posts: 4068
  • I'm a Ma'fan of Shadowrun!
« Reply #1 on: <07-28-14/0022:59> »
I was initially a little confused by this myself.  Here's how I've interpreted the rule (after reading it about a dozen times).

Let's say you have a team of 3 people, who want to perform a Bounding Overwatch maneuver.  Skylar has a Small Unit Tactics (SUT) skill of 3, Intuition of 3.  Summer has a SUT skill of 1, and Intuition of 4.  The team leader, Trip, has a Charisma of 5, Leadership of 4, SUT of 3, and Intuition of 3.

Trip is going to be the leader for this maneuver, so he will be the final roll of the SUT maneuver.

First, Trip directs Summer because she has the smallest dice pool.  He rolls Charisma + Leadership (9 dice) and gets 3 hits.  This means that Summer's roll is her SUT + Intuition + Trip's Leadership Hits, for a total of 8 dice.  Summer rolls 8 dice and gets 3 hits.  Skylar then gets to roll her SUT + Intuition.  Skylar rolls 9 dice and gets 4 hits.  Finally, Trip gets to handle the last test.  He rolls his SUT + Intuition + Summer's SUT Hits + Skylar's SUT Hits, or 13 dice.  He gets 5 hits, which exceeds the threshold of 4 needed to perform the maneuver.

More complicated maneuvers require a LOT more hits, and therefore a team with a LOT more coordination (Leadership and natural skill).  The Intuition isn't the critical part - it's having a lot of team members, with lots of skill.
« Last Edit: <07-28-14/1052:42> by Namikaze »
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

Quote from: Stephen Covey
Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

adzling

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #2 on: <07-28-14/0025:37> »
page 100 of run and gun has your small unit tactics targets for specific maneuvers

page 142 of core has your leadership targets for helping your team-mates in combat

and you can do both at once, if you like

that's the gist of it, if that makes any sense :p

adzling

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #3 on: <07-28-14/0032:02> »
I was initially a little confused by this myself.  Here's how I've interpreted the rule (after reading it about a dozen times).

Let's say you have a team of 3 people, who want to perform a Bounding Overwatch maneuver.  Skylar has a Small Unit Tactics (SUT) skill of 3, Intuition of 3.  Summer has a SUT skill of 1, and Intuition of 4.  The team leader, Trip, has a Charisma of 5, Leadership of 4, SUT of 3, and Intuition of 3.

Trip is going to be the leader for this maneuver, so he will be the final roll of the SUT maneuver.  First, Trip directs Summer because she has the smallest dice pool.  He rolls Charisma + Leadership (9 dice) and gets 3 hits.  This means that Summer's roll is her SUT + Intuition + Trip's Leadership Hits, for a total of 8 dice.  Additionally, Summer's Mental limit is increased by 1 for this test.  Summer rolls 8 dice and gets 3 hits, which happens to be her Limit.  Skylar then gets to roll her SUT + Intuition + Summer's SUT Hits, with a +1 to her Mental Limit.  Skylar rolls 9 dice and gets 4 hits.  Finally, Trip gets to handle the last test.  He rolls his SUT + Intuition + Skylar's SUT Hits, with +2 to his Mental Limit for the test.  He rolls 10 dice and gets 4 hits, which allows the team to properly perform the maneuver.

More complicated maneuvers require a LOT more hits, and therefore a team with a LOT more coordination (Leadership and natural skill).  The Intuition isn't the critical part - it's having a lot of team members, building from the weakest to the strongest, and giving your team leader the best chance possible to succeed by passing along hits and bonuses to the Limit.

there's also the other orders you can use your leadership for on p.142,
Our Face has sut of 11 so it's not too hard to pull of some of those maneuvers with teamwork or edge.
Fun stuff.

voydangel

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 537
  • SR GM since 1990. Damn I'm old.
« Reply #4 on: <07-28-14/0213:02> »
A few corrections:
Let's say you have a team of 3 people, who want to perform a Bounding Overwatch maneuver.  Skylar has a Small Unit Tactics (SUT) skill of 3, Intuition of 3.  Summer has a SUT skill of 1, and Intuition of 4.  The team leader, Trip, has a Charisma of 5, Leadership of 4, SUT of 3, and Intuition of 3.

Trip is going to be the leader for this maneuver, so he will be the final roll of the SUT maneuver.  First, Trip directs Summer because she has the smallest dice pool.  He rolls Charisma + Leadership (9 dice) and gets 3 hits.  This means that Summer's roll is her SUT + Intuition + Trip's Leadership Hits, for a total of 8 dice.  Additionally, Summer's Mental limit is increased by 1 for this test. Summer rolls 8 dice and gets 3 hits, which happens to be her Limit.  Skylar then gets to roll her SUT + Intuition + Summer's SUT Hits, with a +1 to her Mental Limit.  Skylar rolls 9 6 dice and gets 4 2 hits.  Finally, Trip gets to handle the last test.  He rolls his SUT + Intuition + Skylar's SUT Hits + Summer's SUT Hits, with +2 to his Limit for the test.  He rolls 10 11 dice and gets 4 hits, which allows the team to properly perform the maneuver, assuming the maneuver they are attempting requires 4 or less hit to accomplish.

You don't roll over each person's hits into the next person's roll. You can (only) direct a single team member. That person gets the bonus dice from your leadership(direction) roll. Everyone else just rolls their SUT+INT straight up. Then, everyone, whether they were directed or not, gives the number of hits they got on their SUT roll in bonus dice to the leader.

This is actually better since In the end this method actually averages more bonus dice for the leader anyway (as compared to the 'cascading method' presented in the original unedited example). This all also assumes that the leader has been agreed upon ahead of time by the team and everyone has open lines of communication.

Skylar and Summer don't get limit increases because the limit increase rule states that the leader gets +1 to his limit per assistant who scored at least one hit. The team members ("Assistants") themselves don't get any limit bonuses.

Also, don't forget that making the SUT test uses a free action for each and every person making the test, and they must make the test (and use another free action) during their 1st initiative pass each and every combat round if they want to maintain the bonus. Note also that making a leadership(direct) test is a free action as well so the leader will most likely not be able to direct a team member while leading the SUT action.

For the record, I think SUT should be an active skill. But that's just me.
« Last Edit: <07-28-14/0230:03> by voydangel »
My tips for new GM's
Unless it is coming from an official source, RAI = "Rules As Imagined."
SR1+SR2+SR3++SR4++SR5+++h+b+++B+D382UBIE-RN---DSF-W+m+(o++)gm+MP

Namikaze

  • *
  • Freelancer Ltd
  • Prime Runner
  • **
  • Posts: 4068
  • I'm a Ma'fan of Shadowrun!
« Reply #5 on: <07-28-14/0948:51> »
SUT follows the same rules for any Teamwork test.  Each participant rolls and carries the roll to the next participant.

I was wrong.  Amending my original post to reflect the correct information.
« Last Edit: <07-28-14/1050:49> by Namikaze »
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

Quote from: Stephen Covey
Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

martinchaen

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #6 on: <07-28-14/1031:02> »
What bothers me is the phrasing in the text versus the summary.

According to the Combat Maneuver Steps box on page 99, the Leader is designated and then rolls his SUT skill. The NEXT step is for team members to roll, using "normal teamwork rules".

As I read the box on page 99, I thought the Leader rolled to initiate the maneuver, and each team member rolled their dice with additional hits from the team leader. Hits from each individual was then totaled, and if the total exceeded the threshold then the maneuver succeeded.

Reading the text, I don't see where the team members would be rolling teamwork for the leader; this seems counterproductive.

The Leadership test as I see it is optional, not mandatory.


So, an example as I would implement it:
PC A, B, C, and D are attempting a combat maneuver with a threshold X.

Step 1: PC A is designated as leader.
Step 2: PC A rolls Small Unit Tactics + Intuition, and gets Y hits
Step 3: PC B, C, and D rolls
This is where the teamwork test is supposed to come in, but there is no "normal" rules for this situation. I'd have each PC roll with the additional Y hits from the leader as bonus dice
Step 4: Count the total number of hits between PCs A through D
Step 5: Apply modifiers as appropriate


That being said, I feel like the in-combat maneuvers take too much effort to set up. To my mind, the only maneuvers worth considering are the ones that can be set up outside of combat, namely:
Crossfire
Diamond Formation
Dynamic Entry (both versions)
Slicing The Pie
Traveling Overwatch
« Last Edit: <07-28-14/1036:28> by martinchaen »

Namikaze

  • *
  • Freelancer Ltd
  • Prime Runner
  • **
  • Posts: 4068
  • I'm a Ma'fan of Shadowrun!
« Reply #7 on: <07-28-14/1103:05> »
What bothers me is the phrasing in the text versus the summary.

According to the Combat Maneuver Steps box on page 99, the Leader is designated and then rolls his SUT skill. The NEXT step is for team members to roll, using "normal teamwork rules".

As I read the box on page 99, I thought the Leader rolled to initiate the maneuver, and each team member rolled their dice with additional hits from the team leader. Hits from each individual was then totaled, and if the total exceeded the threshold then the maneuver succeeded.

Reading the text, I don't see where the team members would be rolling teamwork for the leader; this seems counterproductive.

The Leadership test as I see it is optional, not mandatory.

After reading this section again and again, I've just discovered something that is VERY confusing.  Page 98: "Combat Maneuver Tests are based on the standard teamwork skill listed on p. 49, SR5."  It's the based on part that I'm confused about - I was always treating this like any other teamwork test, but now I'm not so sure that is the correct way to handle it.  As you pointed out, martin, page 99 gives a 5-step process for this, and it does NOT follow the standard teamwork test framework.  In fact, the only part that is similar to the standard teamwork test is the use of Leadership to give a bonus to a team member.

So let's amend my prior example:

Team Leader A has Charisma 5, Leadership 3, SUT 3, Intuition 3
Team Member B has SUT 3, Intuition 3
Team Member C has SUT 1, Intuition 4

A rolls SUT+Intuition (6 dice) and gets 2 hits.
B rolls SUT+Intuition (6 dice) and gets 1 hit.
A gives a Leadership bonus to C, rolling Leadership+Charisma (8 dice) and getting 3 hits.
C rolls SUT+Intuition+Leadership Bonus (8 dice) and gets 2 hits.

Total hits: 5, threshold: 4.  Maneuver completed successfully.
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

Quote from: Stephen Covey
Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

martinchaen

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #8 on: <07-28-14/1235:19> »
Indeed, your last example reflects my understanding of the Combat Maneuver test, Namikaze, with the sole exception of the Leadership test.

My impression is that in order to pull of a Combat Maneuver during actual Combat, the sequence of events needs to be synchronized. So, to take your example further:
Team Leader A has an initiative score of 18
Team Member B has an initiative score of 9
Team Member C has an initiative score of 27

Team Leader A may or may not be allowed to perform an out-of-sequence Free Action to communicate "COMBAT MANEUVER X!" to his team, verbally or through comms.

Team Member C and Leader A may or may not need to hold their action until Initiative Score 9 during the first Action Phase, in order for each member to be ready to take action.

Team Leader A spends a Free Action to roll his Combat Maneuver Test as part of Step 2. This is in addition to the Free Action used to communicate that a Combat Maneuver is going to be attempted.

Team Leader A may or may not then also take a Leadership test, acting out of sync with the steps of the table on page 99, to Direct one of the team members. Alternatively, the usage of the Leadership skill may be intended to be taken after everyone has rolled for the Combat Maneuver test, instead of being applied to the Combat Maneuver roll itself. This aspect is really murky for me, as I'm not sure it's intended for the Team Leader to roll Leadership during the steps on page 99.

For instance, how would Team Member B in your (and my expanded) example know he needs to wait for commands?

Additionally, the actions needed to use the test, and the fact that everyone has to wait until the "same time during an Initiative Pass", strike me as somewhat debilitating.

To summarize using your example, Namikaze, I believe things would go something like this:

AP = Action Phase
IS = Initiative Score

AP1, IS 27: Team Member C delays his action and/or spends a free action to suggest to Team Leader A that a combat maneuver be performed
AP1, IS 18: Team Leader A uses a Free Action to order Combat Maneuver X, and holds the rest of his action
AP1, IS 09: Team Leader A goes first, and spends a second Free Action (GM discretion) to roll his Small Unit Tactics + Intuition (-1 for delaying actions?)
AP1, IS 09: Team Member C spends a free action to roll his Small Unit Tactics + Intuition
AP1, IS 09: Team Member B spends a free action to roll his Small Unit Tactics + Intuition
At this point, the number of hits are totaled to determine success or failure
AP1, IS 09: Team Leader A now gets the rest of his actions (presumably one complex or two simple)
AP1, IS 09: Team Member C now gets the rest of his actions
AP1, IS 09: Team Member B now gets the rest of his actions

Now, as per the delaying actions rules on page 161 of SR5, the characters get to keep their Initiative Scores for the remaining Initiative Passes, so the rest of the combat turn would look like this:

AP2, IS 28-10: Team Member C gets to act
AP2, IS 18-10: Team Leader A gets to act
AP2, IS 09-10: Team Member B does not get any actions

AP3, IS 28-10-10: Team Member C gets to act
AP3, IS 18-10-10: Team Leader A does not get any actions
AP3, IS 09-10-10: Team Member B does not get any actions

The expenditure of Free Actions for the other team members is not explicitly stated, and could be a mistake on my part.

Namikaze

  • *
  • Freelancer Ltd
  • Prime Runner
  • **
  • Posts: 4068
  • I'm a Ma'fan of Shadowrun!
« Reply #9 on: <07-28-14/1306:02> »
I'm not sure that Initiative really matters too much in this equation.  A leader can use a free action to signal the maneuver at any time.  If the leader intends to use their Leadership skill to influence a team member, then the team member should hold their action, I suppose.  Hmm, there is one situation where this might be problematic.  If the leader has the last action in a turn, it is possible that the Leadership test might not work until the following turn.

I see it going down like this.  Team leader A has Initiative 15, team member B has Initiative 20, team member C has Initiative 25.  Despite having the highest Initiative, C has the lowest SUT dice pool, and therefore A wants to use Leadership to boost that pool.  A calls out for a maneuver at Initiative 25, using his free action to do so.  C holds his turn until Initiative 15.  B rolls SUT, A rolls Leadership, C rolls SUT, A rolls SUT.  Maneuver successful, and the bonuses apply from Initiative 15 onward.
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

Quote from: Stephen Covey
Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

voydangel

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 537
  • SR GM since 1990. Damn I'm old.
« Reply #10 on: <07-28-14/1514:30> »
My personal take on how it works and why they used the phrase "based on teamwork rules", which I will fully admit could be wrong, but here's what I think the RAI is:

Teamwork and SUT work in a nearly identical way mechanically speaking. Lets use an example of a 4 man team:

1. Team agrees that person A is designated as the leader, and persons B, C, and D are not the leader. Under "teamwork" rules (SR5 p.49) these non-leader people are called "Assistants", whereas they are simply "team members" under "SUT" rules (RnG p.98).

2. Each assistant/team member rolls their skill roll and counts up successes as normal. This is exactly the same for teamwork and SUT.

3. The designated leader the rolls his skill per normal but gets a number of bonus dice equal to the total number of hits made by all his assistants and gets a limit bonus equal to the total number of assistants who rolled at least one success. This is exactly the same for teamwork and SUT.


I imagine the reason why they used the phrase "based on teamwork rules" is because this is basically exactly the same as teamwork rules. They simply go on to reiterate and explain them in slightly better detail. I feel the intention here is to view SUT tests as nothing more than a codified example of a specific type of teamwork test with specialized outcomes/results (the maneuvers).

This interpretation makes the rules consistent, simple, and unambiguous. It does, however, also mean that the sidebar on p99 of Run & Gun should be revised by making swapping the positions of steps 2 and 3. I'm sure there are other interpretations possible as well, but this seems to me to be the easiest and most straightforward interpretation.

***

As for the 'initiative issue': An SUT maneuver only lasts for 1 combat round. If you want the bonus next round,  you have to re-roll a new SUT test. That part seems pretty clear and simple.

It doesn't state exactly how this works, but based on the fact that each person has to make a roll, and therefore has to make it on their own initiative pass, I would assume that the leader needs to make his roll 'last'. This doesn't mean that anyone must delay their actions, it simply means that they won't get the bonus for any actions they take until the leader makes his roll. I've been in tactical situations and coordination doesn't always happen simultaneously, so this 'staggered' actions thing totally makes sense to me from a realism standpoint.

Anyway, each person makes their own SUT roll as their free action on their initiative pass, and then, after everyone involved is "ready" (has made their SUT roll on their respective initiative passes) the leader says "now" (makes his roll - starting the maneuver).

The GM should make a note of the initiative score/number that the leader's "maneuver start" roll occurred on because the bonuses from the maneuver will be in effect for the rest of the current combat round (all remaining passes/actions) and the beginning of the next combat round (kind of like how grenades go off on the next combat turn on same initiative score they were thrown on).

Note that since a new SUT roll has to be made each round no matter what, if a team were savvy enough they could "sustain" a maneuver. This is nothing more than simply making a new SUT maneuver roll for the same maneuver before the old one wears off.

After a team makes the initial SUT maneuver roll, one of of 2 things happen the following combat round:

1. If the team doesn't want to "sustain" the maneuver, they just don't make their SUT rolls and play continues on as normal. They still receive the maneuver bonus on all actions they take up until the initiative score the maneuver was started on (last round) comes to pass (kind of like a grenade going off), at which point the maneuver bonus has run it's course and goes away. (EX: a maneuver is made on 13 of this round, everyone goes and does things on their passes with the bonus in effect, and eventually a new round is started. Everyone that has an action before 13 still gets the bonus from the maneuver from the previous round, but anyone going on or after 13 does not get the bonus since it wasn't "sustained".)

2. Assuming the team wants to "sustain" the maneuver, everyone on the team makes another SUT roll on their own initiative passes in the new round, the leader can then make his roll when his turn comes up. Note that people don't have to make their SUT roll/action on their 1st available pass since the maneuver may still be in effect from last round. However, everyone should try to make their rolls as soon as possible so as to allow the leader to make his new "sustaining" roll before the old maneuver "wears off" to prevent any "gaps" in the maneuver. If, for whatever reason, the bonus from last round wears off before the team leader can make his "sustaining" roll, then any/all actions taken during this gap don't get the maneuver bonus. (EX: if the maneuver was started at 12 last round, but the leader doesn't get to make his new SUT roll until 7 this round, then anyone going on 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, or 7 this round doesn't get the bonus.)

So, by consistently making SUT rolls each round, the maneuver can be "sustained" indefinitely so long as people keep making their rolls and the leader gets enough hits to keep it going and he gets to make his SUT roll each round before the old one wears off. Occasionally there will be gaps in the maneuver - just like in real life - nothing is perfect.


Again, all this makes perfect sense to me and makes the SUT rules very consistent with other mechanics that are similar (namely teamwork and grenades), but in the end this is just my interpretation and I could be wrong.
« Last Edit: <07-28-14/1522:30> by voydangel »
My tips for new GM's
Unless it is coming from an official source, RAI = "Rules As Imagined."
SR1+SR2+SR3++SR4++SR5+++h+b+++B+D382UBIE-RN---DSF-W+m+(o++)gm+MP

martinchaen

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #11 on: <07-28-14/1522:30> »
The reason I'm loathe to apply the teamwork tests to Combat Maneuvers is that every member doesn't exactly get to contribute much that way. In real world tactics, each individual member is a large contributor to the success of the maneuver, and this is double true if the teamwork test from the leader applies to his subordinates, and then each of them get to add dice to the total.

I also believe this is intended, as they use the word "tally". Of course, this could reference the tally done as part of a teamwork test, but I doubt this is the case as I don't think they would have phrased it quite the way they did if they so intended.

Bottom line; for maneuvers requiring 6 hits you'd need a whopping 24 dice to be able to buy those hits in a single go. With Combat Maneuvers tests spread across each individual, this becomes much easier (6 man team only needs 1 hit each, or the equivalent of 4 dice each). This, to my mind, more accurately reflects the core aspect of this mechanic; the teamwork (not to be confused with the game mechanic of the same name).

It comes down to the sidebar as far as I'm concerned, because the text on page 98 to 99 is fairly confusing, whereas the sidebar is very straight forward.

voydangel

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 537
  • SR GM since 1990. Damn I'm old.
« Reply #12 on: <07-28-14/1541:12> »
The reason I'm loathe to apply the teamwork tests to Combat Maneuvers is that every member doesn't exactly get to contribute much that way. In real world tactics, each individual member is a large contributor to the success of the maneuver, and this is double true if the teamwork test from the leader applies to his subordinates, and then each of them get to add dice to the total.

I also believe this is intended, as they use the word "tally". Of course, this could reference the tally done as part of a teamwork test, but I doubt this is the case as I don't think they would have phrased it quite the way they did if they so intended.

Bottom line; for maneuvers requiring 6 hits you'd need a whopping 24 dice to be able to buy those hits in a single go. With Combat Maneuvers tests spread across each individual, this becomes much easier (6 man team only needs 1 hit each, or the equivalent of 4 dice each). This, to my mind, more accurately reflects the core aspect of this mechanic; the teamwork (not to be confused with the game mechanic of the same name).

It comes down to the sidebar as far as I'm concerned, because the text on page 98 to 99 is fairly confusing, whereas the sidebar is very straight forward.

I completely agree that this is how it should work. This usage of SUT would make maneuvers much easier to pull off (but would make them nothing like teamwork tests - which the RAW states they are "based on").

Like you, I think each person should just make their roll and everyone's rolls get added to the tally independently - and then, as long as the team as a whole comes up with at least 5 (or whatever) successes, then the maneuver is successful. In this scenario the maneuver would start (and end) on the initiative score of whichever character made the roll that finally beat the threshold.

I completely agree that this is how it should work, I just don't think that's how the RAW states that it does work. Which I suppose could just be yet another errata candidate. =P

Of course, I also think that something like this that gives tangible combat bonuses should be an active skill rather than a knowledge skill.
« Last Edit: <07-28-14/1550:36> by voydangel »
My tips for new GM's
Unless it is coming from an official source, RAI = "Rules As Imagined."
SR1+SR2+SR3++SR4++SR5+++h+b+++B+D382UBIE-RN---DSF-W+m+(o++)gm+MP

Quatar

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 414
« Reply #13 on: <07-28-14/1547:46> »
Wow this seems even more complicated than I thought...

I would have to agree with Martinchaen though, it seems that's they way it's meant to be. They seem quite explicit that the Teamleader rolls first, and then afterwards teamwork rules apply. The only way that can work is if the Teamleader adds his successes onto the teammembers now, and then afterwards the successes are counted. (Well the second way that could be is that the author who wrote this didn't know the teamwork rules as good as he thought he did...)

I really wished for such things they'd just add a small example. It takes like 5 lines of text, and allows them to skip 20 lines of trying to explain it, and it's much more clearer.

However the whole Initiative thing could be a mess. My group might not even work for this... god a Face (me), Decker (probably not always part of the Small Unit), Rigger (Ok, drones. Good. They're mentioned.) and a physical adept with shark totem (yes, Shark. Once he gets hit he's definitely not part of any Unit anymore as he just charges in blindly. He's also a melee fighter to start with I believe). We might get one or more people still, but not sure that Setup really is a good starting point for SUT.

Namikaze

  • *
  • Freelancer Ltd
  • Prime Runner
  • **
  • Posts: 4068
  • I'm a Ma'fan of Shadowrun!
« Reply #14 on: <07-28-14/1723:50> »
Actually, if you look at the example of Teamwork Tests on page 49 of SR5, you'll see this:

Quote
The shadowrunning team is tracking a particularly elusive shaman, and each and every member of the team needs to pitch in. Takouba, with 3 ranks in Tracking and an Intuition of 4 (total of 7) and a Mental limit of 5, takes the lead in the test. Lliane has Tracking 2 and Intuition 3, so she rolls five dice and gets one hit.  Saskatchewan Pete and Sorsha both do not have the Tracking skill, so each of them rolls their Intuition – 1, which is 2 for Pete, 3 for Sorsha.  Pete gets no hits and Sorsha gets one, so altogether the team is adding 2 to Takouba’s limit and 2 dice to his test. He will roll 9 dice with a limit of 7 and see how many hits he gets.

If we take this example and substitute SUT for Tracking, we get this:

Player A has SUT 3 and Intuition 4 (total of 7 dice).
Player B has SUT 2 and Intuition 3 (total of 5 dice).
Player C has SUT 0 and Intuition 3 (total of 2 dice).
Player D has SUT 0 and Intuition 4 (total of 3 dice).

Player B rolls and gets 1 hit.  Player C rolls and gets 0 hits.  Player D rolls and gets 1 hit.  Player A can then roll with a +2 to the limit (due to two teammates having gotten at least a hit) and +2 to the dice pool (total number of hits of the teammates).
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

Quote from: Stephen Covey
Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.