[tasti man LH]

So I recently took a look at the wiki pages of World of Darkness, both Classic and New. At first I was overall kind of "meh" to the game since I always never liked supernatural horror. But, after reading through the fluff, I was very intrigued by what I saw with the various different interpretations of classic supernatural creatures (Promethean, both Demon lines) even though there were a couple I thought was a little bit weird (Werewolf and the whole "part man, part wolf, and part spirit" and being guardians of the spirit world, Changeling with being humans mutated into faerie creatures), I was still nevertheless intrigued. While not enough of start a game, enough to start thinking about integrating aspects of WoD into my Shadowrun campaign.

That said, I keep hearing about how while cWoD is widely praised, hat nWoD is universally reviled by the old-school fans, some going as far as saying nWoD missed the point of what cWoD was all about.

However, there's apparently been a turnabout with the release of 20th anniversary versions of cWoD rule books with updated rules, and the cWoD more or less being revived because of it, and that the nWoD books are being a little more well-received.

So is the above assessment of an outsider looking in true? Are things better or worse when nWoD was initially released? How are things?

[SlowDeck]

In general, whenever I see nWoD brought up, it's used as an example of how a simpler rules system is not better. Never as an example of a good game. Even since cWoD was re-released.

[Noble Drake]

As a big fan of the World of Darkness, and someone who actually had some play groups sever ties over the issue, allow me to share what little "insight" I have:

The only legitimate complaint I have ever heard against the nWoD is that there is no default setting material to use so the game feels less substantial when compared to the setting-driven cWoD products.

...and that complaint has actually started to be something that is getting addressed by the newest of the nWoD game lines with chronicle books.

The mechanics being simpler has next to nothing to do with it, and numerous groups (mine included) use the nWoD mechanics and the cWoD setting - White Wolf even made a series of "translation guides" to help people do that exact thing, before realizing that they could actually have both a revitalized cWoD and the nWoD in production at the same time thanks to digital sales and print on demand.

[tasti man LH]

Yeah, on Drivethru I took a peek at that chronicle on the God Machine and it being a major tie-in for Demon: The Descent and that, while I think the whole "oppressed by a faceless machine" theme is too ham-fisted for my liking, it's overall a cool re-interpretation of the mythos surrounding Heaven and Hell and angels and demons.

Like I said, I currently have no plans to run a game, but am interested enough to check out the books.

In general, whenever I see nWoD brought up, it's used as an example of how a simpler rules system is not better. Never as an example of a good game. Even since cWoD was re-released.

...what, is it a case of being too simplistic because the system doesn't have that complexity where it's needed?

[Reaver]

I too have some familiarity with both cWoD and nWoD....

for me, I personally like the nWoD. There seems to have been more thought about how the various properties could/would/should fit together, and the runs seem to run a gambit balancing act, that mostly gets it right. I also liked how the nWoD rules closed a lot of tiny little loop holes in the various "morality/Spirit/madness/snowflake" meter, while also making that meter more important overall. (which to my understanding is the very something that many cWoD rabidly hate.... Go figure)

[SlowDeck]

In general, whenever I see nWoD brought up, it's used as an example of how a simpler rules system is not better. Never as an example of a good game. Even since cWoD was re-released.

...what, is it a case of being too simplistic because the system doesn't have that complexity where it's needed?

The reason always varies, though that one is a common complaint. But, that's a common complaint about all simplified rules systems. I think I've even seen it on here about Sr5, which isn't a simplified rule system by a longshot...

If it's anything like Savage Worlds, it may be a case that the simplification gets in the way. In the case of Savage Worlds, the rules are so simplified that supplements actually require some houseruling and general tweaking just to work together. I don't think nWoD would have this issue because it's designed with the idea the multiple supplements should work together... but Savage Worlds wasn't supposed to have it either.

So, play it and see for yourself?

[Poindexter]

people didnt hate the rules change.
They hated the bastardized, soul-less mockery of the story and theme of things.

ESPECIALLY the Garou (who aren't even called Garou in the new one).

[Noble Drake]

people didnt hate the rules change.
They hated the bastardized, soul-less mockery of the story and theme of things.

ESPECIALLY the Garou (who aren't even called Garou in the new one).

Or, to phrase that complaint differently: People hated that the new game lines were actually new games with similar themes and not new editions of the old game lines.

[Reaver]

Which, IMO,  Made the system new and fresh... but then I was never more then a hobby player...

If SR did a reboot that complete I would probably be pissed too...

[Noble Drake]

If SR did a reboot that complete I would probably be pissed too...

That's the thing though, they didn't do a "reboot." What they did would be the equivalent of if Catalyst said "We are going to end this game line with an apocalyptic event," for 13 years and filled their products with steps further towards that end-game and reminders that said end-game was the plan - and then made the biggest and best effort at the end-game that they could.

...but then, rather than just cancel the Shadowrun line, decided to release a game called Runner that shared genre and some themes.

[tasti man LH]

FWIW, I do own the standard WoD core rulebook, which came as a result of the special bundle over at DrivethruRPG during Free Tabletop Day 2014. It's nWoD, but I'm able to give it the benefit of the doubts especially since in terms of the basic mechanics, it should be universal across all the various supplements. And fluff wise, should give an overview of the WoD. So at the very least, I'd be ready to go  if for some reason I wanted to run a WoD game, even of the PCs are regular 'ol humans.

I'll chime in with my thoughts in he coming days/months/weeks.

[Bewilderbeast]

I played a single game of old World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade or whatever it was called. I liked it pretty okay.

I picked up several of the New World of Darkness books and read through them. They were largely hit-and-miss. Vampires still have the problem of "your character is only active at night, and only significant after they've been around for like three or four centuries" which kinda... complicates the stories you can tell in a campaign like that. The Werewolf book did nothing for me; the whole spirit guide neo-tribal thing was stupid and borderline offensive, and excuse me for wanting werewolves to be FREAKING WEREWOLVES AND TURN INTO MONSTERS AND EAT PEOPLE BECAUSE COME ON THEY'RE FRICKIN' WEREWOLVES.

Changeling I was pleasantly surprised by. They really nailed the whole "faeries can actually be creepy and terrifying" aspect. The humans mutated into faerie beings was very effective, and the story snippets that describe their "abductions" were actually way scarier than anything in Vampire or Werewolf. Changelings fall a little short of Werewolves and Vampires in terms of mechanical power, so you'd have to be careful if you planned to run a Changeling game that used those as antagonists or if you had a mix of players playing different supernatural things.

I tried to flip through Mage but it just didn't grab me. Ultra-complex magic system seems cool if you have about thirty hours to sink into learning it, but the whole "mages are awakened descendents of Atlantis and this is a dream world" thing didn't appeal to me and kind of makes werewolves and vampires seem pretty darn irrelevant in comparison.

Other books I'm not familiar with... except for Hunter: The Vigil. Which I loved. It was the first book that actually gave me an idea of how to run a campaign for it. You're a hunter. You're a messed up person who's aware of monsters and decides to kill them and will probably die in a spectacularly bloody fashion. Hop to it. It's clear and simple and compelling.

If I was to ever attempt to run a New World of Darkness game (and I might; it's rules aren't perfect but they're at the perfect level of complexity I like) it would probably be a Hunter game, where players were in a sandbox-type county in the rural United States. I'd stat up several "threats" and it'd be up to the players to discover them and take them out. It'd be fine, and I might get around to trying it some day.

[CanRay]

So World of Darkness:  Hunter is ripping off the TV series Supernatural? 

[SlowDeck]

So World of Darkness:  Hunter is ripping off the TV series Supernatural? 

Other way around. Hunter predates Supernatural by a decade or so.

Edit: Checked. I'm wrong on this, but I remember them having a product along these lines... Blast it.

[CanRay]

So World of Darkness:  Hunter is ripping off the TV series Supernatural? 

Other way around. Hunter predates Supernatural by a decade or so.

Edit: Checked. I'm wrong on this, but I remember them having a product along these lines... Blast it.

The smiley means I'm joking.