[Xenon]

...I would just point out that pistols did get better with Run and Gun because of martial arts that let you use them more effectively in close combat...

Good to hear
(not read it yet; was talking from a purely SR5 core perspective)

[Bushw4cker]

I was worried about killing off my players with a sniper, so I made a Sniper NPC with the Assassin's Creed to only do killing shots to the targets he's paid for. He has Strive for Perfection Quality that gives him bonus to Called shots. I thought that would be more fun anyways.

[Bushw4cker]

You can quick draw a pistol and fire in one action...

[JimmyCrisis]

There is an advantage of using an SMG vs a Sniper rifle in close combat, something there aren't good rules for - noise.

SMGs, pistols and the like make a lot of noise, but not nearly as much as a high powered rifle.  If you take a sniper rifle into a corporate enclave, half the building will know what's up when you pull the trigger.  A silencer can make that a little less so, but realistically security will still be on their way the minute that shot rings out.

Pistols and SMGs use fairly low powered rounds in comparison.  They are still louder than all hell, but in theory they aren't going to be heard across the arcology.  Someone with actual indoor shooting experience please weigh in on this.
On the other hand, silenced SMGs and Pistols won't make much noise down the hall - equivalent to a stack of books being dropped (although a good silencer + silencing treatment can bring that down to just the sound of the gun action).  I've done some research on silencers and played around with one at the gun range.  It's an interesting topic, anyways.

SMGs also have a very high rate of fire and don't necessarily sound like anything someone would recognize who doesn't train with them.  I picked that up from a Jack Reached novel, so it may be circumspect.

Just my 2 cents.

[Dinendae]

In SR5 there is no game mechanic disadvantage of using a sniper rifle, assault rifle or machine gun in CQB over a pistol or SMG.
You can use a sniper rifle at 5 meters just as fine as you would use a pistol or SMG.

Yep! Unlike in SR4, in SR5 sniper rifles do not automatically suffer penalties when using them in any role other than sniping. The one exception that I have seen is the Ranger Arms SM–5: It still follows the old SR4 rule of getting a penalty (to accuracy) when used in a running firefight.

[Sentient Bean]

Interesting points!

I'll be imposing a penalty on dice pool if a sniper rifle is used other than in the context of intended use.

[RHat]

Interesting points!

I'll be imposing a penalty on dice pool if a sniper rifle is used other than in the context of intended use.

That penalty would be wrongful for certain "sniper rifles" - the Crocket EBR, for example, is mechanically classed as a Sniper Rifle but is pretty clearly a Battle Rifle or some sort of DMR.

[ProfessorCirno]

There's another big draw to SMGs - they're one handed, so you can get a cyberarm decked out in agility and recoil comp and just go to town.

[Xenon]

I was worried about killing off my players with a sniper...

You could be nice and give them a perception test.
Have a chance to see the sun reflecting in the sniper's scope or something.

That would turn the first shot into a surprise check and with that a chance of being aware of the attack...




Or have the assassin aim for the tank first.
...the tank might have decent chance to soak some of the damage to at least avoid being one-shot.

Or the adept with tingling spider sense (combat sense adept power), high perception and high defense pool
...the adept might have a decent chance to be made aware of the attack and instinctively dodge the bullet before it hit




And maybe only grant the sniper a very short window of opportunity or low-ish willpower
...so he doesn't have time to take his 3 Take Aim actions in a row before lining up the shot.

[Xenon]

You can quick draw a pistol and fire in one action...

You can't use pistol with your Longarm skill.

...but you can quick draw a machine pistol and fire as one simple action using Automatic skill
- and still use Automatics Skill for your assault rifle

The CQB option of Longarms skill is Shotguns.
(but in SR5 core you might as well continue to use the sniper rifle in CQB over a [slug loaded] shotgun).

There's another big draw to SMGs - they're one handed...

Which is yet another reason that make Automatics skill even more versatile compared to Longarms skill...

The more I think about it the more I like the house rule that get rid of automatics skill.
Pistol cover all firearms you can hold in one hand and longarm all firearms that require two hands.

Also strange that you don't get any benefit from using a SMG with two hands.
...one would expect that you get a recoil compensation bonus of one point if you use it with two hands
(or less recoil compensation due to strength if you use it with two hands)



btw- In real life SMG is a weapon you normally use with two hands while braced against your shoulder.

There is an advantage of using an SMG vs a Sniper rifle in close combat, something there aren't good rules for - noise.

In SR5 core you need a perception test with a threshold of 1 to notice gunfire
...and a threshold of 2 in addition to a negative dice pool modifier of 4 dice to notice silenced gunfire*

In SR5 core you have the same chance of hearing a high caliber sniper rifle as a low caliber pistol
...or an assault rifle equipped with a suppressor as a pistol equipped with a silencer.
(exception being the Ares Light Fire series that give the target a negative dice pool modifier of one extra dice)




*But depending on your reading there might be a threshold of 1 in addition to a negative dice pool modifier of 4 dice for noticing suppressed gunfire and a threshold of 2 in addition to a negative dice pool modifier of 4 dice for noticing silenced gunfire. However, it should be noted that SR5 core does not seem to make the distinction between the two.

Earlier editions of SR made a distinct difference between a Silencer and a Sound Suppressor.



SR3 p. 281 Silencer
A silencer is a barrel-mounted accessory that reduces the sound and flash of a weapon's discharge. Silencers can only be used with single-shot or semi-automatic weapons. They cannot be used with revolvers. A silencer applies a +4 target number to any attempt to notice the weapon's use, or to locate the weapon's firer. Using a silencer modifiers Concealability by -2, and requires one Complex Action to install or remove.



SR3 p. 281 sound Suppresser
Similar to silencers, sound suppressers are used with burst-fire and full-auto weapons. A sosund suppresser adds a +2 target number modifier to any attempt to notice the weapon's use or to locate the weapon's firer. Sound suppressers must be replaced every 300 rounds of burst of auto-fire. A sound suppressor modifiers Concealability by -2, and requires two Complex Actions to install or remove.



SR5 p. 432 Silencer/suppressor
This barrel-mounted accessory reduces the sound and flash of a weapon’s discharge. It cannot be used with revolvers or shotguns. It applies a –4 dice pool modifier on all Perception Tests to notice the weapon’s use or locate the weapon’s firer. Attaching or removing a silencer takes a Complex Action.
  Wireless: The silencer/suppressor features a Rating 2 microphone with Rating 2 Select Sound Filter and simple software that alerts you via AR if your silencer detects the sound of someone nearby reacting to the sound of the silenced weapon.

[RHat]

Important note on the thread topic, by the way:  There's a rule in Run & Gun that allows anyone to spend Edge to get a defense against attacks they're unaware of.

[Xenon]

Important note on the thread topic, by the way:  There's a rule in Run & Gun that allows anyone to spend Edge to get a defense against attacks they're unaware of.

Good to know

Are there rules to avoid getting blown up by explosives as well...?

[Dinendae]

Interesting points!

I'll be imposing a penalty on dice pool if a sniper rifle is used other than in the context of intended use.

The only sniper rifle so far that should receive any such penalty is the Ranger Arms I mentioned. Why would you impose a penalty on the others for doing exactly what they are meant to do (i.e. fire bullets)? Now if the character was using it in melee to strike the enemy, then yeah, penalties galore.

[Taejix]

Good to know

Are there rules to avoid getting blown up by explosives as well...?

There are in fact such rules.

There is an Interrupt action for -5 Initiative that allows you to use your available movement to move away from an incoming grenade. Or jump on top of it if you so wish.

There's also a -10 Initiative option for throwing them back, but that's a little more risky.

[Cronstintein]

Interesting points!

I'll be imposing a penalty on dice pool if a sniper rifle is used other than in the context of intended use.

The only sniper rifle so far that should receive any such penalty is the Ranger Arms I mentioned. Why would you impose a penalty on the others for doing exactly what they are meant to do (i.e. fire bullets)? Now if the character was using it in melee to strike the enemy, then yeah, penalties galore.

Oh I dunno, if you have a long range scope on a weapon, I could see that hampering you in cqc (though that logic would apply to ar as well).