[Forrest]

Did I miss it, or did they eliminate the risk of losing magic when mages used stim patches.  It seems like a good balancer since mages who take stun drain could just slap on a stim patch and not be effected any longer.

[Shinobi Killfist]

yeah, though since you take rating of the stim patch +1 in unresisted stun damage its not always a great choice.  It might get you through the fight, but if you take 5+boxes of physical from overflow afterwards it might slow you down in the long run.  It can get kind of dangerous as you wrack up stun from drain, slap on a stim patch wrack up more drain stun etc.  It's a tough tactical decision, do you really need it to get through the fight?, will the party take more damage if you don't use one? if not its just not worth it.

That being said, I think they should have kept the limit in.  If anything I would have preferred they increased the difficulties awakened had with bio-tech, the matrix etc from 4e back to its roots or even further.  At least drain can no longer be first aided.

[SavarWallk]

Drain can only be  by natural means, in 5th. To the best of my knowledge.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Stim patches don't really heal anything, they just hand wave them away for 10 minutes x rating.  The damage is still there, you just don't feel it for a while.

[LordGrizzle]

I personally think stim patches are balanced enough in the current ruleset. If you are a magician and you filled up your stun track to half and use a stim patch to clear it guess what happens when you fill it up again to half or even further. As soon as you Crash you'll fall into a deep slumber whcih can be really bad during any Action sequence that takes longer than a few minutes. With a Rating 6 Stim Patch you could argue that you get to roll Body + Willpower to remove some stun-boxes before the Crash Comes in if you got an hour to rest (while being pinned down or somesuch) but even that may not be enough to not fall unconsciouss for at least one more hour.

So yeah mages beware, use Stim Patches carefully cause they might come back to bite you in the ass. And well, I am not sure if they have an addiction Rating but should you get addicted to them they could potentially ruin your character and his magical abilities that way (IF burnout still causes essence loss as per 4E rules, I don't know).

[hayek]

I personally think stim patches are balanced enough in the current ruleset. If you are a magician and you filled up your stun track to half and use a stim patch to clear it guess what happens when you fill it up again to half or even further. As soon as you Crash you'll fall into a deep slumber whcih can be really bad during any Action sequence that takes longer than a few minutes. With a Rating 6 Stim Patch you could argue that you get to roll Body + Willpower to remove some stun-boxes before the Crash Comes in if you got an hour to rest (while being pinned down or somesuch) but even that may not be enough to not fall unconsciouss for at least one more hour.

So yeah mages beware, use Stim Patches carefully cause they might come back to bite you in the ass. And well, I am not sure if they have an addiction Rating but should you get addicted to them they could potentially ruin your character and his magical abilities that way (IF burnout still causes essence loss as per 4E rules, I don't know).

Actually, you can't rest while under the effects of a stim patch. And yes they do have an addiction rating

[LordGrizzle]

You cannot rest, as in specifically not regain any boxes on your Stun Track?

I did not know that, even more punishing than I thought.

[WellsIDidIt]

Just though I'd point out that the only new balance factor added to stim patches have done pretty much the same thing since SR3. They don't force a magic loss tests now, but they're addictive now.

SR 5:

Stim patch: This patch removes a number of boxes of Stun damage equal to its Rating. This effect lasts for (Rating x 10) minutes—after that period of time, the patient takes (Rating + 1) unresisted Stun damage (which may be well become physical overflow by that point). While a stimulant patch is in effect, the character is unable to rest. Frequent use of stimulant patches may require Addiction Tests. Treat it as Addiction Rating 2, Addiction Threshold 1.

SR 3:

Stimulant Patch: This patch releases a [/i]non-addictive stimulant[/i] to keep a character awake at times when awareness is vital. When used, reduce the Stun Damage on the character’s Condition Monitor by a number of boxes equal to the patch’s rating. Magicians should be wary of side effects that may damage their ability to use magic. The magician makes a Magic Test against a target number equal to the patch’s rating. If the test fails, the magician must follow the procedure for possible Essence loss as if he or she had taken a Deadly wound. (See Damage and Healing, p. 125.) The effects of the patch wear off in 2D6 minutes, and the removed damage plus one box is restored.

Forrest, very few things cause magic loss now. The system is much kinder when it comes to damage and permanent attribute loss.

[Forrest]

Yeah, I always thought heating a deadly wound and possibly losing a point of magic because of  it was a little harsh.
I'm just not sure if the balancing of stim patches now really balances out the advantages.  If there is no scene coming up after the stim patches applies, then there is no reason not to use them regularly.

[Linkdeath]

Yeah, I always thought heating a deadly wound and possibly losing a point of magic because of  it was a little harsh.
I'm just not sure if the balancing of stim patches now really balances out the advantages.  If there is no scene coming up after the stim patches applies, then there is no reason not to use them regularly.

Unless, of course, since you keep using them all the time, you get addicted to them, making you use them all the time and being unable to rest so that the only time you ever actually rest is when the patches wear off and you fall unconscious. Yeah, no reason not to.