Author Topic: Matrix House Rules  (Read 554 times)

Kiirnodel

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Re: Matrix House Rules
« Reply #15 on: (21:40:05/05-14-17) »
if you're hacking a security camera it means that you're either in the host already or you're direct connected.
Is that to say that a device slaved to a Host is inside said Host?

Based on what I remember, and I might be remembering wrong, devices slaved to a host don't have icons on the grid. The only way to hack them would be through the host, or by direct connection.
« Last Edit: (21:43:55/05-14-17) by Kiirnodel »

Jack_Spade

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Re: Matrix House Rules
« Reply #16 on: (00:35:28/05-15-17) »
That's wrong:
Slaving does absolutely nothing to move the device from the grid. Entering a host is an action that requires a mark on the host so a device without a pilot, agent or other persona can't perform it.
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Kiirnodel

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Re: Matrix House Rules
« Reply #17 on: (01:57:31/05-15-17) »
Well, first up, entering a host is something that personas do. I never said that devices take actions to "enter" a host. I said that devices slaved to the host exist on the host. You're right that devices can't just enter the host, but that's like saying that devices can't perform the action to become slaved... not really the same thing.

I was basing my statement on the following:

Quote from: Core Rulebook Page 246; Hosts par. 2
The virtual space inside a host is separate from the outside grid. When youíre outside of a host, you canít interact directly with icons inside it, although you can still send messages, make commcalls, and that sort of thing. Once youíre inside, you can see and interact with icons inside the host, but not outside (with the same caveat for messages, calls, etc.).

Jack_Spade

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Re: Matrix House Rules
« Reply #18 on: (03:25:00/05-15-17) »
Yeah, but nowhere does it say the camera icon is in the host if slaved to it.
Slaving does not change the location of an icon. It merely benefits from the masters defense stats.
You might be able to see the files a camera sends to the host and edit them, but the camera itself is not in the host.
talk think matrix

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Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Kiirnodel

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Re: Matrix House Rules
« Reply #19 on: (05:32:17/05-15-17) »
There are different interpretations. This one is going off of the concept that items slaved to a host become icons on that host. Otherwise, for example, a host would be unable to perform control device actions on the devices slaved to it. Meaning the whole idea of hacking into a building's host to take control of the doors would be impossible.

I know that I'm not the only one who has come to that conclusion, as I didn't come up with it myself. And I'm not entirely certain I like that interpretation either. Personally, I liked the idea of having "Home Nodes" much better. The idea that each and every corporate building has its own host seems a little over-the-top.

I think, having a mid-range between commlinks/cyberdecks and Hosts would make more sense. Something that is more powerful than a commlink/cyberdeck (depending on quality) but isn't mobile would work fine. In 4th edition, they were called a nexus. They wouldn't have the complete autonomy of a host, but they would be something tied to a specific location. The Core rules contradict themselves in many ways, simultaneously saying that Hosts have no physical location but then saying that they could be tied to a physical location.

Sorry, went a little off-topic there...

Jack_Spade

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Re: Matrix House Rules
« Reply #20 on: (07:27:49/05-15-17) »
But it's an interesting topic...  ;D

This interpretation hinges on a misconception.

The rules text for WANs is:
"There are also wide area networks, or WANs, with multiple devices slaved to a host. A host can have a practically unlimited number of devices slaved to it, but because of the direct connection hack you rarely see more devices than can be protected physically. If you are in a host that has a WAN, you are considered directly connected to all devices in the WAN."

Just because you can't interact with the regular matrix from inside the host doesn't mean the host can't. Being in the host allows you to access it's WAN devices (which incidentally means that no public access host may ever have any devices slaved to it) - this is an exception from the normal rule that you can't interact with the rest of the matrix. It does not force the conclusion that all device icons slaved to the host have to be inside the host.

talk think matrix

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Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Kiirnodel

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Re: Matrix House Rules
« Reply #21 on: (16:49:10/05-15-17) »
You've made a pretty large assumption that there's an exception to that rule, but that isn't ever stated anywhere.

And why can't public access hosts have slaved devices?

Jack_Spade

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Re: Matrix House Rules
« Reply #22 on: (17:01:20/05-15-17) »
Specific trumps general: The rules text explicitly tells you that you have a direct connection to all slaved devices if you are within the host. Direct connections allow you to stay in contact with and command a device that is outside a host even while you are in the host.

A public host is accessible by the public aka everybody. Any visitor to the host of your local pub would suddenly be able to control all slaved kitchen appliances with minimal effort.
Banking hosts would allow you to open door locks and shut off cameras, etc. (In my games I solve this by using dedicated security hosts that only authorized personal is allowed to enter, while public hosts have at best files containing advertising and entertainment.)
talk think matrix

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Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Kiirnodel

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Re: Matrix House Rules
« Reply #23 on: (18:55:32/05-15-17) »
So, not can't, more like shouldn't.

A public host that is a club that let's the visitors play around with the lights, or send requests to the auto-dj is totally do-able.

Jack_Spade

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Re: Matrix House Rules
« Reply #24 on: (02:57:36/05-16-17) »
Yeah, I meant "may not" as in "dangerous if you do".

The inability to compartmentalize hosts is really something the rules writers should have tackled from the start (that was something all other versions in the matrix in previous editions did well - sometime even too well)
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex