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Shapeshifter Technomancer?

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ClockworkThistle

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« on: <10-11-15/0320:12> »
I am running a group of new players through the Twilight Horizons campaign setting. One of the player came up with the idea of a Shapeshifter Technomancer, and being the generally accepting GM that I am, I told him I would think about it.

I have scanned the rules regarding SSs and TMs, and I cant find a reason in the mechanics that this combination would be inherently broken. But I have not played Shadowrun since 3rd edition(and never as the GM), so I thought to come here for advice. Is there a reason that I should disallow the concept?

Darzil

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« Reply #1 on: <10-11-15/0439:03> »
From a strict reading of the rules, it shouldn't be possible, as all Shapeshifters have a magic attribute, and you cannot have both magic and resonance.

On the other hand I don't see any particular balance reason it should matter, if they aren't awakened, so can always allow it by house rule.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #2 on: <10-11-15/0831:01> »
The issue is that Shapeshifters do functionally have 'innate spell (metahuman form)'.  Since you can't have magic and resonance both, if you lose the magic ... you lose access to the actual shapeshifting.

I'm not against the idea of a shapeshifter in the matrix, though the latter is essentially anathematic to the former; however, to accomplish it, you're really gonna need a deltaware datajack.

That said, though, Darzil's right - this is your game, and if it makes it cool (and you reasonably limit things), hey, go for it.
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ClockworkThistle

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« Reply #3 on: <10-11-15/1232:07> »
That said, though, Darzil's right - this is your game, and if it makes it cool (and you reasonably limit things), hey, go for it.

My question then is, what steps would i need to take to limit it?

MijRai

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« Reply #4 on: <10-11-15/1256:51> »
Well, the way I would do it is effectively replace their Magic with Resonance for all purposes, and explicitly don't allow them to take Magic-reliant stuff. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

ClockworkThistle

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« Reply #5 on: <10-11-15/1320:06> »
Well, the way I would do it is effectively replace their Magic with Resonance for all purposes, and explicitly don't allow them to take Magic-reliant stuff.
That was my first thought. Maybe thematically make the shapechanging look more digital(kind of like digimon). The other idea I thought is just treat the magic stat as unchanging and mostly irrelevant.

DigitalZombie

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« Reply #6 on: <10-11-15/1331:19> »
I have scanned the rules regarding SSs and TMs, and I cant find a reason in the mechanics that this combination would be inherently broken. But I have not played Shadowrun since 3rd edition(and never as the GM), so I thought to come here for advice. Is there a reason that I should disallow the concept?

I dont think shapeshifters being technomancers is automatically broken. Fluffwise he could be a crazy technocritter with the ability to shift into a human.  Just replace his magic stat with resonance and let him create some nasty enemies trying to capture for experiments´n´stuff.

Ruleswise there might be some factors you will need to consider:
1. Some of the critters like eagles and dogs or panthers have decent mental stats (´cept for logic). If he would be choosing dog at priority C, he could go troll as his shift metahuman power. Thereby he would have decent meatworld stats and when he was going to do some matrix stuff he would shift into his animal form and gain a boost to his persona.

2. technomancers are harder to detect than awakened, that would be a boost when running around in animal form I  presume. (unless assenssing can see the metahuman form just as easily?) that would make hacking in animal form a lot easier (if its a dog or eagle atleast)

3. Shapeshifters automatically have a lowered special attribute, that would carry over to resonance (unless it has been errataed ?)

I think I would go by a case-by-case ruling. What shapeshifter does he wish to be, with what metahuman type?

If you feel it might be too powerful you could say that all his submerging costs as if "shift metahuman form" was already a submerging, thus making all others 3 karma more expensive.
Otherwise Id just let him play one without any further modifactions- if technoshapeshifters were accepted at my table.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #7 on: <10-12-15/0038:18> »
Because shapeshifter is already expensive - IIRC, you have seperate attribute purchases, and you start out 'uneducated', making learning hacking skills a tough nut to crack - you're pretty limited to start with.  I personally would require them to purchase both Magic and Resonance special attributes, allowing them whatever Magic-attribute powers shapeshifters get, but with the understanding that if they don't buy up their Magic attribute, they might well be stuck in their original animal form if they take only one point of Magic and subsequently lose it (which is entirely possible).

From that point forward (and presuming you're running them has having regeneration, which they should have - I haven't seen the Run Faster errata, so I don't know if that got added as it should havce been), you mostly need to watch out for the same thing a GM who runs a shapeshifter-mage has to watch out for - a character who throws themself into danger, supercharges (or takes stupid risks) so that they take damage they can essentially shrug off.  The best thing to do in my opinion is to simply rule that Matrix damage, as brain damage, does not regenerate - that it only heals as fast as it does for any other ordinary character.  (The metagame philosophy on this has always been that damage to the head and spine is as critical damage for a shapeshifter as it is for anyone else.)
Pananagutan & End/Line

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Reaver

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« Reply #8 on: <10-12-15/0357:42> »
Gonna point out one thing (and kinda be a wet blanket). But shapeshifters are NOT people that turn into animals, but ANIMALS that turn into people. That is not a thematic difference, but a comeplete change of mindset.

A S.S. is an animal. What is motivating this animal to leave the safety of its natural environment, to get involved with a bunch of metahumans?

Then ask yourself why/how such a creature would express techno abilities.....


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farothel

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« Reply #9 on: <10-12-15/0440:45> »
On the other hand, there are (or where, in 4th edition) critters who expressed matrix abilities similar to a technomancer.  I don't have my books, so I can't tell in which book it is (I think it was Running Wild, but I'm not sure), but there was a meeting on the matrix between Netcat and a regular cat.  So if one of those developed also shapeshifting abilities, it would be possible and make for a great backstory.  I would however be very careful about balancing issues.

EDIT: those critters would have reason to stay in cities and mingle with metahumans.
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Reaver

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« Reply #10 on: <10-12-15/1453:22> »
On the other hand, there are (or where, in 4th edition) critters who expressed matrix abilities similar to a technomancer.  I don't have my books, so I can't tell in which book it is (I think it was Running Wild, but I'm not sure), but there was a meeting on the matrix between Netcat and a regular cat.  So if one of those developed also shapeshifting abilities, it would be possible and make for a great backstory.  I would however be very careful about balancing issues.

EDIT: those critters would have reason to stay in cities and mingle with metahumans.

Yep. Running Wild. Technocritters. In fluff, the blackberry cat has made an appearance, but as a whole nothing stat wise yet. (Probably be in the critter book).

But again, many of those there domestic animals.... and still animals (not even had sapience).... Not 'magical shapeshifting' animals.


As I said before, its your game, do as you will!
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.