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Shadowrun as an universal system

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Kesendeja

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« on: <10-10-15/1000:16> »
I've used the system to run Stargate and StarWars, and my husband used it to run a fantasy game. Has anyone else done something similar and how did it turn out?

Shamie

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« Reply #1 on: <10-10-15/1646:32> »
Werewolf the Apocalypse. Obviously i didnt use Metatypes but i did use spirits rules like Shadowrun but had some suspension of disbelief as to why a shirt has armor Rating.

Its the same system more or less (D10 are D6) but with a tight combat system.

rcaugust

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« Reply #2 on: <10-12-15/0824:54> »
I admire the effort but I'm not sure I'd bother using the SR system as a generic system. In a world where you have GUMSHOE, BRP, D20 and GURPS, I'm not sure SR has that much to offer as a universal system- so many of the mechanics seems tied to the SR concepts which generated them that the conversion work doesn't seem worth it.

Although again, I admire the effort it must have taken and I can see some reasons why you might want to, I'm not sure its something I'd ever do. Interesting thought though.
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HaikenEdge

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« Reply #3 on: <10-12-15/1041:07> »
I think, in the future, I'll probably use the Shadowrun system to run more high fantasy games. I feel like it's better balanced in Dungeons and Dragons in general, which is the system I started out playing.

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #4 on: <10-12-15/1052:07> »
I am toying with the idea to use SR for a Codex Alera campaign. (Karma buy)

Marat=Elves
Kanim=Trolls
Icemen=Orks
Vord=Insect Spirits

Furys=Various kinds of spirits
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
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Halinn

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« Reply #5 on: <10-12-15/1650:56> »
Furys=Various kinds of spirits

I feel like any kind of magic char can replicate various flavors of fury granted abilities. Most would just be adepts, since they can't manifest their furies, but are only able to draw strength from them. And a lot of the stronger uses would have to be handled by spells.

Top Dog

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« Reply #6 on: <10-13-15/0701:28> »
The biggest problem I'd have is that mundanes will be so much worse off compared to magic characters. That is, the game is balanced, right now, so that awakened characters are more or less on par with augmented mundanes. Taking away those augmentations will swing the balance wildly in favor of the Awakened.

Plus, whole archetypes (riggers, deckers) only make sense in a world with advanced computers.

You could compensate for the first - make up new qualities for mundanes, or make all characters functionally awakened, but then you have to balance it yourself, and/or make the game a lot more bland.

It could work as a system for a universe in roughly the same technological state, so Star Wars I can see (Stargate less so), I'd say. And you could use it as a kludge for most other settings if you really want - but it won't end up balanced.

MijRai

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« Reply #7 on: <10-13-15/1121:45> »
There's a much simpler answer for that, Top Dog:

Take out magic.

Magic is only one aspect of the system, and is by no means a requirement.  He's talking about using the mechanics of the game, not the specific bits like the Magic system or the Matrix system or Augmentations.  Making your dice-pool with Attribute+Skill+Specialization+Modifiers, counting 5s and 6s, that's pretty much fine everywhere.  I've discussed using the Shadowrun system for a Fallout RPG, for example.  Most augmetics and magic as a whole fly out the window immediately. 

Archetypes have no mechanical effect, so they're not really important. 

The Shadowrun system (not the niche bits inside) is quite flexible, and useful for lots of games.  It's better than a d20 system when it comes to making what you want; there's already Karma/Experience costs balanced, rules for things like disease, poison, fatigue, etc. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

Top Dog

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« Reply #8 on: <10-13-15/1228:39> »
There's a much simpler answer for that, Top Dog:

Take out magic.

Magic is only one aspect of the system, and is by no means a requirement.  He's talking about using the mechanics of the game, not the specific bits like the Magic system or the Matrix system or Augmentations.  Making your dice-pool with Attribute+Skill+Specialization+Modifiers, counting 5s and 6s, that's pretty much fine everywhere.  I've discussed using the Shadowrun system for a Fallout RPG, for example.  Most augmetics and magic as a whole fly out the window immediately. 

Archetypes have no mechanical effect, so they're not really important. 

The Shadowrun system (not the niche bits inside) is quite flexible, and useful for lots of games.  It's better than a d20 system when it comes to making what you want; there's already Karma/Experience costs balanced, rules for things like disease, poison, fatigue, etc.
Archetypes being untenable isn't mechanically important, but it is important in a more practical sense: you want different characters with different skillsets.

And if you excise magic altogether as well, you're left with a very shallow system where most people will end up alike. Which isn't bad per sé - you can do a lot with a low amount of stats and fill it up with roleplaying - but you're ending up with so little of Shadowrun left that there's not really much point. There are other systems that do it better at that point.

SmilinIrish

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« Reply #9 on: <10-13-15/1329:08> »
The single reason that I have thought about a conversion of Shadowrun to a high fantasy setting is that I like the magic system.  The concept of casting spells repeatedly, and fatigue being the limit is appealing to me, and how I think magic should work, rather than the Vancian system that D&D uses.
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Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #10 on: <10-13-15/1340:50> »
The single reason that I have thought about a conversion of Shadowrun to a high fantasy setting is that I like the magic system.  The concept of casting spells repeatedly, and fatigue being the limit is appealing to me, and how I think magic should work, rather than the Vancian system that D&D uses.
The FATE-based Dresden Files RPG does it much better IMO. It certainly does alchemy much better at any rate.
Playability > verisimilitude.

Mirikon

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« Reply #11 on: <10-13-15/1402:27> »
Honestly, I wouldn't use Shadowrun as a universal system. It works great in a fantasy cyberpunk game, where you not only have elves and dragons and magic, but also cyberware and the Matrix and deckers, but the internal balance breaks down when you remove parts of it. So outside of a narrow niche, there are simply better choices out there for universal systems, especially since those systems were DESIGNED to be universal.

Two main contenders I point people to when talking about universal systems are Mutants & Masterminds 2nd edition and Champions/HERO System. Both are points-based, effects-based systems, which allows for a lot of freedom in designing characters. If you are looking for a way to do magic that involves having to rest and recover your stamina, then there are ways to do that in both systems. With M&M, you could simply tack on the Side-Effect flaw to your spells, with a 'Stun' power as the side-effect. At the second level of the flaw, every time you use the spell, you'd have to resist a Stun effect. Makes it so you can't go spamming attacks all day long, while not being TOO harsh on a player. As far as HERO is concerned, however, things are even easier. Almost all powers or effects cost Endurance (END) to use. You recover END both at the end of a combat turn and if you rest for one of your initiative passes. So I can spam a manabolt only so long as I have END to use on it.

Another point towards HERO is that they have different kinds of defenses. The four main kinds people worry about are PD, rPD, ED, and rED. PD and ED stand for Physical Defense and Energy Defense, respectfully. If someone shoots you with a shotgun, that will go against PD. If they hit you with an energy blast, that's ED. The 'r' stands for Resistant. That's kindof like Hardened Armor in Shadowrun. There are two types of damaging attacks in HERO, normal and Killing. Normal attacks are affected by your full defense, and while they may knock down your STUN, they don't often damage your BODY. Killing attacks bypass all but your resistant defenses, deal damage direct to your BODY, and also have a multiplier that applies damage to your STUN. Basically, a Manabolt would be a Killing attack, while a Stunbolt would be a normal attack.

The downside of HERO is that it is, if anything, more complex than Shadowrun is, so it takes some work to get used to the system and figure out how to do things. M&M, on the other hand, is based (loosely) on the D20 system, which means that 80-90% of the potential players out there already know the majority of the mechanics, post-Chargen. This makes it easier to learn, though there is a distinct difference in style of play. HERO is a tactical game, whereas M&M has a freewheeling style like you're watching Spidey and Green Goblin battling it out over Manhattan. For a grittier, more 'street' game, I'd go with HERO, but for a high-flying, anything goes game, M&M is a better choice.
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farothel

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« Reply #12 on: <10-13-15/1505:40> »
If you want a universal system, take Alternity.  It was build as a universal system, with extra specific settings for both far future sci-fi as for contemporary games and it actually has rules to play from stone age to far future.  I've actually tried a shadowrun like session and it worked without much problem.  It has magic (psionic, FX, faith powers, but together they can become a universal magic system), the matrix (they call it the grid here, but what's in a name), FTL travel (for the far future part), cybergear and mutants (adept powers) and a very simple playing system.

All those rules are optional, so you don't have to use them if you don't want to and it will play easily enough.  In fact, playing a mundane is quite easy in this system, as for instance the magic 'spells' are just skills like any other and you buy them with the same karma as other skills.  So if you want to be good in magic, that's fine, but you will be less good in other things.  And the mundane will spent his karma in his skills and he will get better at other things while the mage gets better at magic.  Also the more karma you put in a spell, the better you will get at it (since it's a skill like any other).

The only problem with it is that it's out of print and the books are not easy to get.  And it's a very lethal system.  Like in real life, one pistol shot can kill you.  This might not be for all groups, but it can be adapted if you want to.
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Jareth Valar

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« Reply #13 on: <10-14-15/1945:11> »
Chummers, I'm fairly certain the OP was not about what systems are better as a universal system. I have been gaming for over 30+ years and have played A LOT of different systems in my day and there are far better universal systems out there for a myriad of games, many much better suited for universality than Shadowrun (GURPS, M&M, Hero, Fate, Fudge, Palladium (by virtue of the same system in every product), Savage Worlds, Basic Role Playing (i.e. Chaosium), d20, Corps, D6, Fuzion, Mekton (basically the R. Tal system used between several games), Tri-Stat from GoO, Masterbook, RoleMaster, True20, and on and on).  There are many, many more I didn't list, only those off the top of my head that I have actually played and remember at the moment.

I just think trying to convince the OP of the value of other/better universal systems is getting WAY Off Topic.

Back on On Topic.

As for how my conversions/other settings worked:

Fantasy - Did Forgotten Realms and Eberron for mine as well as a short lived Ravnica stint.  The Eberron and Ravnica settings really mesh well with the overall Corporations/Guilds lord over all concept, and Forgotten Realms because of it's high fantasy background.

Warhammer 40K/Dark Heresy went extremely well.  I actually like the normal system for these games but I did it mostly for my group who was reluctant to try a new system at the time.  I actually worked out a conversion formula for the weapons that kept them in progression woth SR weapons.  REALLY made an impression when the group realized that SM bolters were effectively pistol grip assault cannons with SA/BF capabilities.  :'(

Star Gate was pretty seamless. No real modifications needed.  Hell, SR already has Cheyenne Mountain inaccessible due to some unknown barrier around the whole subterranean complex. (SR 2nd or 3rd info)

Star Wars too was no real issue, magic=force and stats for lightsabers I modeled after monowhips with reach of 1.  Just a couple of abilities and mods to skills ans ta-da.

R1ft5 (yes I spelled it that way to avoid the gaming police) to was rather simple and very fun, that is once I threw out the window the whole MDC concept, which I tend to do anyway.

I've done several more over the years, but these are the only one that reached any successful play time.

Even after all the other (and arguably better) systems out there, I find myself gravitating back to Shadowrun for a great many things. Could be that it's been my longest running gaming system or the fact I've been playing it since '89, don't know.  Either way I personally think Shadowrun supports a universal system rather serviceable.

Dinendae

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« Reply #14 on: <10-14-15/2124:00> »
...R1ft5 (yes I spelled it that way to avoid the gaming police)...

I don't follow that bit I quoted? Why can't you spell Rifts?  ???