Author Topic: Skill Choices & Skillwires  (Read 751 times)

Tarislar

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Skill Choices & Skillwires
« on: (23:06:45/04-12-17) »
So I'm working up a character that is using Skillwires & Skills-E/0 for only 18 points of actual skills.

My question is............  Where do I put those 18 actual skill points?

The character is going to be cyber heavy focusing on combat but face skills are also an option for sure.

The level of skill wires is most likely going to be 4.

The 18 points will either be a trio of 6's drop a point or 3 for specializations, but only 3 known skills.

My current thought is Perception is a keeper for sure, that is something that I would want as a natural skill to always have up.

My 2nd choice is Unarmed Combat so I am never dependent on a weapon but that is open for debate.

Finally I'm thinking a social skill would be in order, either Etiquette or Con.

Some sort of Firearms skill is also very likely needed but I'm unsure if I should drop the H2H skill or the Social one.

Or both of them for a gun skill & something else?


I'm looking for input on my current ideas & suggestions on what you would choose, let me know what you think & thank you in advance for the assistance.

firebug

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Re: Skill Choices & Skillwires
« Reply #1 on: (23:16:41/04-12-17) »
One thing to consider is that you cannot use Edge on skills you're using skillsoft for.  So skills you may either really want to go big with (like breaking the limit to do a crapload of damage with an attack) or you absolutely want to be able to save (which is why Perception is a great choice, sometimes you really don't want to fail that test to spot the sniper...).

Make sure you check with your GM about what skills can be skillsofts, too.  The book says "Physical Active" but it's obviously more than that, as the game regularly talks about weapon skillsofts (which are Combat, not Physical) and they get used in workplaces for stuff like mechanic skills or even demolitions (which are Technical, not Physical).  Considering the Skilljack headware requirement, an argument could be made for anything (aside from Magical or Resonance, obviously) as you're already able to use skillsofts to alter your knowledge and speech, so why not allow an Etiquette activesoft?  But still, your GM has the final say, unless there's errata on it...

If your Skill Wires rating is only 4, I'd suggest having a weapon skill at 6, Perception at 6, and one other thing you want to be able to get really good with.  Skillsofts cap at 6; so if you ever want to have a higher skill rating in the future, you'll need it to be something you have.  For your weapon skill, Automatics is the most flexible firearm skill, ranging from concealable machine pistols to long-range, powerful assault rifles.
« Last Edit: (23:31:08/04-12-17) by firebug »
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Tarislar

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Re: Skill Choices & Skillwires
« Reply #2 on: (00:35:25/04-13-17) »
One thing to consider is that you cannot use Edge on skills you're using skillsoft for.  So skills you may either really want to go big with (like breaking the limit to do a crapload of damage with an attack) or you absolutely want to be able to save (which is why Perception is a great choice, sometimes you really don't want to fail that test to spot the sniper...).

Make sure you check with your GM about what skills can be skillsofts, too.  The book says "Physical Active" but it's obviously more than that, as the game regularly talks about weapon skillsofts (which are Combat, not Physical) and they get used in workplaces for stuff like mechanic skills or even demolitions (which are Technical, not Physical).  Considering the Skilljack headware requirement, an argument could be made for anything (aside from Magical or Resonance, obviously) as you're already able to use skillsofts to alter your knowledge and speech, so why not allow an Etiquette activesoft?  But still, your GM has the final say, unless there's errata on it...

If your Skill Wires rating is only 4, I'd suggest having a weapon skill at 6, Perception at 6, and one other thing you want to be able to get really good with.  Skillsofts cap at 6; so if you ever want to have a higher skill rating in the future, you'll need it to be something you have.  For your weapon skill, Automatics is the most flexible firearm skill, ranging from concealable machine pistols to long-range, powerful assault rifles.

Thanks FB, I forgot abut that Edge issue, so I'm thinking no Etiquette then, I wouldn't be likely to edge that roll, lol.

As for Active Softs, remember its "small p/a" not "Capital P/A" in the writing.
So its saying anything that is physically active, not the category of "Physical Active".
This is backed up later in the sentence right after it saying every active skill that doesn't use Magic or Resonance.

P. 442
Quote
Activesofts replace physical active skills, basically every Active skill that isn’t based on Magic or Resonance

In my reading its saying Active v/s Knowledge (P.128) not Active v/s Technical (P.130/143)  Or Social, or Vehicle, or B&R etc etc.



Hmm, I don't see a lot of edging perception going on, but, the always available nature of it clearly has it in the running still.
Firearms, of some type, seems to be in for sure as Edging that is something that is likely to happen.

So 3rd choice comes down to Unarmed or Con or Sneaking, as the 3 things I can think of where you might really want to blow edge to make the roll.

Kuirem

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Re: Skill Choices & Skillwires
« Reply #3 on: (05:58:45/04-13-17) »
Firearms is the obvious choice.

Putting Perception on Skillwires but with only rating 4 unless you have a high INT I wouldn't risk it so take that as second 6-skill (or 5 + Specialization ofc).

Sneaking should be your last pick imo. Unless you have a crap-ton of AGI and buy it with karma but you will need to be able to edge it when needed.

Don't forget that you can invest karma into skills as well, so since you will likely have a high AGI and REA you can spend ~10 karma into a Melee and Piloting skill and be decent enough with it with the option of EDGing it (which can be much needed for Piloting).

If you have good CHA buy a couple of point into Con to be able to edge it. If you have bad charisma just accept that even edge won't save you and rely on the softs.

If you are building a Combat Skillwired character don't forget that Move-By-Wires exist, it cost a more essence but less Nuyen than Skillwires+Wired Reflexes. If you buy them with Restricted Gear you can start with a Rating 3 and immediatly have access to Rating 6 Skillsoft along with a lot of initiative. You can reduce the essence cost with Burnout's Way and Biocompatibility to fit a bit more wares.

If possible in your build I would recommend to start with Skillwires 6, those 2 extra skillpoints can make a huge difference.

Rooks

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Re: Skill Choices & Skillwires
« Reply #4 on: (06:33:07/04-13-17) »
Another option is to pick Gunnery Ballstic Electronic Warfare Remote Operations and Piloting groundcraft walker or just pick the Remote Operations specalization that way you can use gunnery skill on any gun a drone has

Tarislar

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Re: Skill Choices & Skillwires
« Reply #5 on: (23:05:10/04-13-17) »
If you are building a Combat Skillwired character don't forget that Move-By-Wires exist, it cost a more essence but less Nuyen than Skillwires+Wired Reflexes. If you buy them with Restricted Gear you can start with a Rating 3 and immediatly have access to Rating 6 Skillsoft along with a lot of initiative. You can reduce the essence cost with Burnout's Way and Biocompatibility to fit a bit more wares.

If possible in your build I would recommend to start with Skillwires 6, those 2 extra skillpoints can make a huge difference.

Move-By-Wires w/ Restricted gear is actually what I'm looking at doing.

I would really like Level-3 but the other things I'm looking into is pushing me towards Level-2 instead.

I may still go 3, but the Essence & Cash involved go from high to problematic.


As for attributes,  I'm debating a couple paths.
1 is to go heavy Charisma & use a Cyberarm to get Agi/Str for my combat skills in which case it would look like this.... B5-A3-R5-S1-W5-L3-I5-C6
In this path I'd look into something like Friends in High Places to get the most out of the Charisma

The other option is to skip Charisma & the Arm & go Level 3 Move by Wire & set up Attr as follows.... B5-A6-R5-S3-W5-L2-I5-C1

The first method has lower skillwires but can pull of some Face type options.
The 2nd method is pure Thug in the Logic/Charisma department & would be all about using Agility for Infiltration & Combat skills.


I'm open to suggestions on that route as well.



@ Rook
Gunnery & Piloting are skills I would look into for the Skillwires for sure.  But I'm more debating what I should use my base 18 points on for now.

Rooks

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Re: Skill Choices & Skillwires
« Reply #6 on: (01:48:26/04-14-17) »
Perception Visual Sneaking Urban Automatics Machine Pistols

Tarislar

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Re: Skill Choices & Skillwires
« Reply #7 on: (02:01:27/04-14-17) »
Perception Visual Sneaking Urban Automatics Machine Pistols

Those are some of my favorite specializations there.

And I think likely going to be my final choices in skills.  (Still considering Unarmed v/s Sneaking, if only because I want a Spur, but its not final)

Would you do them all 5+S each?   Or Flat 6's.   Or mix the #'s of points around to do 2x 6S w/ 1 3S,   or a 4S/5S/6S combo?


Kuirem

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Re: Skill Choices & Skillwires
« Reply #8 on: (03:53:33/04-14-17) »
As for attributes,  I'm debating a couple paths.
1 is to go heavy Charisma & use a Cyberarm to get Agi/Str for my combat skills in which case it would look like this.... B5-A3-R5-S1-W5-L3-I5-C6
In this path I'd look into something like Friends in High Places to get the most out of the Charisma

The other option is to skip Charisma & the Arm & go Level 3 Move by Wire & set up Attr as follows.... B5-A6-R5-S3-W5-L2-I5-C1

The first method has lower skillwires but can pull of some Face type options.
The 2nd method is pure Thug in the Logic/Charisma department & would be all about using Agility for Infiltration & Combat skills.


I'm open to suggestions on that route as well.

I don't think you can really face with skillwires because face have to edge some of their roll. A failed glitch on a impersonation or negociation roll can be quite fatal for the whole team. Getting some charisma skill on skillwire isn't too bad but trying to face actively with it? Not sure it would work that well, though you can always give some teamwork to a real face.

The best attribute to use along with Skillwires is LOG, that's where there is a lot of situational skills that people rarely invest in : Mechanic, Chemistry, Forgery… plus they are often extended test so you rarely need to edge them (some GM don't even allow it). On top of that you can get some Computer or other Hacking skill and teamwork with your hacker. Along with that there is the benefit of Knowledge skills, they are cheap enough and can tip the scale if used properly.

AGI/REA are good as well. Being able to drive a boat/plane when needed (even if you don't make awesome stunt with them) is good and AGI has a lot of skills attached as well (Exotic Weapons, Heavy Weapons, Free Fall, Swimming, etc.).

Cyberarms would be extremely hard to fit in when Skillwires/Move-By-Wires already take a good chunk of your essence and nuyen. Also I didn't ask but are you going Magic? Since you have E skill I assumed you did but what are you using it for? Techno, Adept, Aspected Magician? Or is it Sum-to-Ten chargen?

Would you do them all 5+S each?   Or Flat 6's.   Or mix the #'s of points around to do 2x 6S w/ 1 3S,   or a 4S/5S/6S combo?

If you want to min/max it Flat 6 is the way to go (30 Karma for 5->6 vs 7 Karma for specialization).

ZeldaBravo

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Re: Skill Choices & Skillwires
« Reply #9 on: (17:15:20/04-14-17) »
Perception Visual Sneaking Urban Automatics Machine Pistols

Those are some of my favorite specializations there.

And I think likely going to be my final choices in skills.  (Still considering Unarmed v/s Sneaking, if only because I want a Spur, but its not final)

Would you do them all 5+S each?   Or Flat 6's.   Or mix the #'s of points around to do 2x 6S w/ 1 3S,   or a 4S/5S/6S combo?

It really depends on your attributes. If your agility is like 9, then you can easily drop sneaking down to 3 and buy 3 specs for your skills.
*I have problems with clarifying my point in English, so sometimes I might sound stupid or rude.*

Tarislar

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Re: Skill Choices & Skillwires
« Reply #10 on: (01:07:57/04-15-17) »
Cyberarms would be extremely hard to fit in when Skillwires/Move-By-Wires already take a good chunk of your essence and nuyen. Also I didn't ask but are you going Magic? Since you have E skill I assumed you did but what are you using it for? Techno, Adept, Aspected Magician? Or is it Sum-to-Ten chargen?

If you want to min/max it Flat 6 is the way to go (30 Karma for 5->6 vs 7 Karma for specialization).

It would only be 1 arm, not 2.   So MbW3 v/s MbW2+CA, either way its 5 base Essence.

I am considering Magic-D & Human-D in for Adept w/ 5 Edge.  Its a loss of 2 edge, but the room to grow aspect of magic & the benefits of Burnouts Way are appealing & are the only way to fit in the Skill Jack that MbW still needs as well as some other things that I want.

Basically it would be a Sum2Ten build as 4-4-1-1-0.  At least in my initial plan.

I think you mean 12 Karma for Skill-6.  Its 2x Level, not 5x, that would be for Attributes.

Tarislar

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Re: Skill Choices & Skillwires
« Reply #11 on: (01:09:16/04-15-17) »
It really depends on your attributes. If your agility is like 9, then you can easily drop sneaking down to 3 and buy 3 specs for your skills.
Agility will be either 3+Cyberarm-9 or 6 w/o any Arm.

The Bald Man

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Re: Skill Choices & Skillwires
« Reply #12 on: (17:13:49/04-16-17) »
Cyberarms would be extremely hard to fit in when Skillwires/Move-By-Wires already take a good chunk of your essence and nuyen. Also I didn't ask but are you going Magic? Since you have E skill I assumed you did but what are you using it for? Techno, Adept, Aspected Magician? Or is it Sum-to-Ten chargen?

If you want to min/max it Flat 6 is the way to go (30 Karma for 5->6 vs 7 Karma for specialization).

It would only be 1 arm, not 2.   So MbW3 v/s MbW2+CA, either way its 5 base Essence.

I am considering Magic-D & Human-D in for Adept w/ 5 Edge.  Its a loss of 2 edge, but the room to grow aspect of magic & the benefits of Burnouts Way are appealing & are the only way to fit in the Skill Jack that MbW still needs as well as some other things that I want.

Basically it would be a Sum2Ten build as 4-4-1-1-0.  At least in my initial plan.

I think you mean 12 Karma for Skill-6.  Its 2x Level, not 5x, that would be for Attributes.

I've been looking at that build also.  How do you get 5 edge?  Special Attribute points for human have to go to magic so you don't burn all the way out, right?

Glyph

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Re: Skill Choices & Skillwires
« Reply #13 on: (20:38:32/04-16-17) »
SR5 is different.  You can actually have a Magic rating of 0 and still be able to raise it, as long as your maximum Magic rating does not drop below 1.  A Priority: D adept would have a Magic rating of 3 and a maximum Magic rating of 6, so if he got 5 Essence cost in augmentations, his Magic rating would drop to 0 and his maximum Magic rating would drop to 1.  So the character could raise his Magic rating to 1 later, although he would have to initiate before increasing it any further.

Tarislar

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Re: Skill Choices & Skillwires
« Reply #14 on: (21:09:19/05-05-17) »
So I had quite a few options in my head when designing this guy & if I wanted him more focused on Combat (cyberarm) or more capable of filling other rolls like Infiltrator/Face (Skillwires-6).

In the end I went with less Combat & more Skills.

He's a bit short on given all the stuff I got for him so it came down to just 2 "Face" skillsofts at Chargen but I think picking up another Skillsoft every couple runs is a good way to spend cash till he finds some nice Delta clinic to upgrade his Ware.

Let me know what you think.



Archtype:  Wired Generalist
Name:  Hank "the Tank" Anderson MacGruber
Street Name:  Apex


4-Attributes      24
4-Cash      $450,000
1-MagRes      2
1-Meta      Hum-3
0-Skills      18


Attributes:
Body   3
Agility   6
Reaction   5 [8]
Strength   1
Willpower   5
Logic   2
Intuition   5
Charisma   5
Edge   5
Essence   2.01
Magic   1
Initiative   22+2D
Physical   5
Mental   5
Social   6
Dodge   14
Armor   15


Skills:
Automatics-6   13d
Perception-6      11d
Sneaking-6      12d

Skillwires-6
Etiquette-6      11d
Negotiation-6   11d


Contacts   
Fixer - 6/1   
Talismonger - 5/2   
Gang Boss - 2/4   


Qualities/Karma Spending:
Code of Honor  (Warrior's Code)
Weak Immune System
Astral Beacon
Prototype Trans-Human
Restricted Gear
Biocompatibility (Cyberware)
Burnouts Way
Magic-1
Contacts-20


Adept Powers:
Combat Sense-1
Heightened Concern


Gear/Ware:
Move by Wire - 3
Skilljack - 6
Chipjack - 2
Orthoskin - 2
Platelettes Factory
Voice Enhancement
Damage Compensators - 4
Nephritic Screen - 1
2x  Active Soft - 6
GMC Phoenix
Fake SIN - 4
Hermes Ikon Commlink
Contacts-3 w/ Image, Flare, & Polychromatic
Low Lifestyle - 1 Month
Steampunk Suit + Synergist Business Lined Coat
Remington Suppressor w/ Laser Sight & Spare Clip - 20 Rounds Each - APDS & Gel
Ares Sigma w/ GasVent-3, Custom Grip, Shock Pad, Vision Mag, + 200 Reg, Imaging Scope w/ Smartlink + Thermal
Glasses-4 w/ Lowlight & Vision-3
Ares Alpha + Shock Pad, GasVent-3, Slide Mount + Extra Clips *3 + 60 APDS, 100 Regular, 100 Gel, 3 HE, 3 FB
Jammer-4
Tag Eraser
White Noise Generator-6
Bugscanner-6
Fake Firearms License - 4
Fake Cyberware License - 4