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Martial Arts in Astral Space. (SR5)

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Overbyte

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« Reply #15 on: <03-22-17/0223:27> »
I'm with the "no" camp.
Martial Arts is a specialization of Unarmed Combat and the description in RG specifically talks about the Close Combat skill group. There is a completely separate skill for Astral Combat. Also in astral space all your attributes change and are based off purely mental attributes (not physical).
I think if you were to allow this at all it would have to be bought specifically (separately) for Astral Combat.

On the other hand I agree that if you are just Astrally Perceiving then you could use any of your normal physical combat skills.
« Last Edit: <03-27-17/2352:22> by Overbyte »
Nothing is foolproof. Fools are so ingenious.

Spooky

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« Reply #16 on: <03-22-17/1524:42> »
In my opinion, I think that if you know the martial arts style that provides a specific maneuver, then you need to specialize in that style in order to use the maneuvers that style provides. So, specializing in both Unarmed and Astral Combat skills (for judo, or karate, as an example) means that you can use the style's maneuvers when those skills are called for. Using a weapon focus with a weapon based martial art, just specialize in the martial art in both Blades and Astral Combat, and done.
Spooky, what do you do this pass? Shoot him with my thunderstruck gauss rifle. (Rolls)  8 hits. Does that blow his head off?

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #17 on: <03-26-17/2140:50> »
Specializations aren't required to utilize martial arts, that's why it is a separate cost to purchase the martial art style (7 karma), each additional maneuver (5 karma), and skill specialization (7 karma)

Pap Renvela

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« Reply #18 on: <03-26-17/2322:20> »
Specializations aren't required to utilize martial arts, that's why it is a separate cost to purchase the martial art style (7 karma), each additional maneuver (5 karma), and skill specialization (7 karma)

No-they're not required.
But Unarmed(Karate) would give me a +2DP bonus while performing those martial arts maneuvers in karate.

However, per page 135, there are only 6 skills that can have martial arts specializations (with each skill allowing only specific styles).
Astral Combat isn't one of the skills listed.
Ergo, astral combat can't benefit from martial arts.

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #19 on: <03-27-17/0040:31> »
I wasn't weighing in on that part of conversation, just pointing out that the argument that the specializations is what allows you to use maneuvers was an inherently flawed one.

And on that note, the sidebar on page 135 (including the official errata) states:

Quote
Each style can be used as a skill specialization. Some of these styles can be a specialization for a combination of skills, or do not easily fit into a single skill and so are not listed here. The gamemaster makes judgment calls about what specializations may be applied to which skills.

immediately followed by a note that Chakram Fighting can be applied as a specialization to Exotic Ranged and Melee Weapon skill, which isn't one of the 6 listed skills. So, not an exhaustive list. Ergo, not proof that the list of specializations indicates anything.

Called Shot: Disarm can only be use with Unarmed Combat, but Bartitsu (a Clubs specialization) gives access to it, does that mean that can't be done? No

I would say a certain amount of common sense needs to be applied. I probably wouldn't personally allow martial arts specializations in the Astral Combat skill, but that doesn't mean that some maneuvers couldn't be applicable. For example, Disarm isn't a good choice in Astral Combat, because removing an opponent's weapon focus simply poofs its astral form, the Called Shot: Blast Out of Hands is much better. Most Martial Arts techniques just aren't going to make much sense in Astral Combat simply because the attacks aren't made the same way. There's no such thing as Superior Position above someone when gravity doesn't apply, you can't perform a Knockdown when everyone can fly.

Really, looking through some of the options, my gut reaction isn't necessarily "no, you can't do it" but more like "why would you bother?" 100% Astral combat doesn't use any of the physical skills, which gives good credence to the idea that you can't use Block or Parry defensive techniques (which also prevents the use of Counterstrike/Riposte). In those same instances, you aren't using the Close Combat skills, so a lot more techniques are eliminated. Really the list becomes quite short, so if there is a martial art maneuver that could potentially be used in Astral Combat, I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be allowed. But I can't think of any off-hand, so I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't really any applicable maneuvers.

Pap Renvela

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« Reply #20 on: <03-27-17/0204:41> »
i take every example listed in every SR5 book with a grain of salt.
The stats for Chakram doesn't exist in any supplement I own- so throw that right out the window.
And the gun kata can be used with clubs part- it is a listed skill.
I'm sorry, unless there's a compelling reason, I still don't see adding to the skills listed.
But i guess I'm a minimalist.
I try to not add on anything unless absolutely necessary.