Author Topic: Treaty of Denver expiration  (Read 523 times)

TonyK

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Treaty of Denver expiration
« on: (00:04:32/12-17-16) »
So I'm going back through Storm Front and Clutch of Dragons, and there's reference to the Second Treaty of Denver expiring in 2074?  Where was it mentioned earlier that the treaty had an expiration date?  Can't seem to find any reference as to how or why the treaty had an expiration date.
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Wakshaani

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Re: Treaty of Denver expiration
« Reply #1 on: (01:19:03/12-17-16) »
While I can't tell you much about where to find that off the top of my head, I *can* tell you that it expired.

The Third Treaty negotiation fell apart, as of the Seattle box set. More detail about that is in the Council Island section.

So, right now, there's no active treaty between the UCAS, CAS, and the NAN. (Or California, or the free city of Denver.)

Needless to say, things are a bit ... tense.

Mirikon

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Re: Treaty of Denver expiration
« Reply #2 on: (21:07:26/12-17-16) »
And, to the surprise of literally no one, the reason the Treaty negotiations fell apart is because the mortals thought Ghostwalker being occupied elsewhere meant it was OK to bring the Azzies back into HIS city.
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Wakshaani

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Re: Treaty of Denver expiration
« Reply #3 on: (01:12:23/12-18-16) »
And, to the surprise of literally no one, the reason the Treaty negotiations fell apart is because the mortals thought Ghostwalker being occupied elsewhere meant it was OK to bring the Azzies back into HIS city.

Didn't help, no.

Not at all.

TonyK

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Re: Treaty of Denver expiration
« Reply #4 on: (20:42:57/12-21-16) »
While I can't tell you much about where to find that off the top of my head, I *can* tell you that it expired.

The Third Treaty negotiation fell apart, as of the Seattle box set. More detail about that is in the Council Island section.

So, right now, there's no active treaty between the UCAS, CAS, and the NAN. (Or California, or the free city of Denver.)

Needless to say, things are a bit ... tense.

Right.  What I'm wondering though, is why a Third Treaty was necessary, if there's nothing in the Second Treaty explicitly setting forth an expiration date.  And if there was an explicit expiration date in the Second Treaty, what book mentions it?

It's just surprising how this whole "we need to negotiate a Third Treaty" business came up out of the blue.
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Wakshaani

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Re: Treaty of Denver expiration
« Reply #5 on: (21:32:08/12-21-16) »
While I can't tell you much about where to find that off the top of my head, I *can* tell you that it expired.

The Third Treaty negotiation fell apart, as of the Seattle box set. More detail about that is in the Council Island section.

So, right now, there's no active treaty between the UCAS, CAS, and the NAN. (Or California, or the free city of Denver.)

Needless to say, things are a bit ... tense.

Right.  What I'm wondering though, is why a Third Treaty was necessary, if there's nothing in the Second Treaty explicitly setting forth an expiration date.  And if there was an explicit expiration date in the Second Treaty, what book mentions it?

It's just surprising how this whole "we need to negotiate a Third Treaty" business came up out of the blue.

You might guess that Ghostwalker and Aztlan had something to do with the second treaty being torn up.


Crimsondude

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Re: Treaty of Denver expiration
« Reply #6 on: (00:57:54/12-22-16) »
The treaty expired because all of the parties to the Second Treaty of Denver rejected several fundamental elements of it when they refuted Ghostwalker's claim over Denver; Aztlan's lack of a role in Denver or much of anything in North American affairs; California's, Caribbean League's, Quebéc's, and Tír Tairngire's recognition and roles (or lack thereof) by the parties to the First and Second Treaties; and a bunch of other stuff that was probably going to be in the Third Treaty — megacorporate influence, including the STC possibly agreeing to the Business Recognition Accords, etc.

Saying it expired was shorthand for "the signatory parties withdrew from the Second Treaty and when they stopped all official negotiations for the Third, there was no longer a legal agreement in place and so the Second Treaty of Denver is officially dead." As the material in Clutch notes, that hasn't stopped the NAN, CAS, and UCAS from continuing to operate under the norms that were established under the first two treaties, but there's nothing to be enforced if they do violate it by, saying, disregarding the sovereignty of their neighbors.


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« Last Edit: (01:00:58/12-22-16) by Crimsondude »