[WernerHerzogZwei]

Howdy Chummers! Greetings from the entirely too sunny center of the California Free State!


I've been GM of a Store game of SR5 every Monday for about four months now, playing with a pretty steady team of five to six runners for the first three months. That is, until the team's decker and sniper move 2 hours north and the Street Samurai takes on a new shift. That's some drek, dude.

So, I put the word out that I had a few spots open out on the local grids, and was nothing if not heartened by the response: not only have I had the existing seats filled, but I have about four or five more players who are interested. Now, I'm more than happy to accommodate all the folks I can, and I know going in that all of the new players have minor experience in SR3 and lets say... similarly complex systems.

So I come to you fine folks for advice on how to keep a game like this moving! I already have my tricks (a 180 second turn hourglass, a troll-sized fistful of cheat sheets for every aspect of combat, my gear/spell cards, some rudimentary MS paint designed tent cards) but I figure people who might of run something in a more convention style setting might have some suggestions I wouldn't even consider.

Thanks in advance!

[Jack_Spade]

My tips on running with 8+ players:
1. Don't
2. If you are up for the challenge: Don't hesitate to deputize players into Co-GMs. Especially in fights where not everyone participates or with the same amount of combat worthiness. Give the less involved players antagonists to handle. It prevents them from getting bored and you from getting crazy. It also helps them to grok the rules faster if they see both sides of the game.
3. If at all possible run two games at different times

[sekkanar]

Having run a number of 8 players games some years back, I can tell you from experience that Jack_Spade is right on target with his advice. 

If you're still going to go ahead with an 8 player game though, I fully recommend that you know the rolls inside-out, that you make sure your players do as well (to minimize the need to look stuff up), and that you do absolutely everything you can to make the game as quickly as possible.  When you're GMing, it's easy to forget that some of your players (or rather, most of them) can be stuck waiting for quite a some time while you and one player are resolving something.  And for a player, there's little more boring than sitting on your hands waiting for your turn to come around for 30+ minutes or more.  Having 8 players will only serve to exacerbate that problem.

Additionally, it'd be prudent to do one-player types stuff (hacking, astral/metaplanar legwork, etc.) outside of the main session, for similar reasons of minimizing player wait-time.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

The big rule for the big games is "keep it moving."  It can be a very, very hard thing to do, especially during combat.

• Create cheat-sheets.  Give everyone the core 'back of the book' flowchart / dice-rolling blocs so that, when it comes their turn to shoot someone in the face, they don't take an hour to figure out how it's done.
• Give them 15 seconds to decide what to do, then tell them they've wasted a simple action.  Give them another 15 seconds, then tell them they've dithered, and go on to the next person.  Keep this rule especially strictly with any players who simply don't pay attention to the game until it comes up to their turn; the correct answer to 'So what's happening?' asked by a person who's been sitting there the entire time is 'You have no idea. What do you do?'
• Put your technicals-hot people between your technicals-weak people.  They won't be co-GMs, but they'll be helpers in the right places.

One of the other key things is to make sure everyone gets to play.  Don't let your two or three big flamboyant pushy loudmouths steal the game.  If it requires you to say, 'Yeah, great, now I wanna know what Wallflower thinks, so sit down and zip the lip," then go ahead and say it.  If they keep trying to steal the show, take them aside during a break and tell them point-blank that they're screwing several other players out of a game, and if they can't sit back and let everyone play, you're going to have to ask them to not be in the game.

All other GM advice, of course, applies, but those are my top ones for a good-sized game.

[Talgrath]

I haven't tried this with Shadowrun, but I have with DnD.  As others have said: Don't.  Just...don't.  Quite frankly, imagine how busy you are with a group of 4-5 players, then double that, and add an extra dash of confusion.  And that's with an even simpler combat/skill rolls system.  If you are going to try this, try to make sure everyone is super clear on the rules and set time limits for actions in combat, if necessary, set a sort of "social interaction" initiative system so you can prioritize the (supposedly) quick thinking "face" characters over the less socially competent runners.  Also, I suggest that you make sure any potential combat situations have "alternate" versions when 1-4 people can't make it.

[MijRai]

My suggestion is a bit more involved and might not be feasible; split the party in two, run one group on Monday, run the second another day.  Allow folks to change between jobs/groups occasionally, or have them all on the same big job that takes lots of people.  Have them work together, or at cross-purposes even.  It rectifies the very real problem with running tables with too many people at them.  A lot of fun things can happen when you do that. 

The problem there is getting a bunch of schedules (including yours) to work with it. 

[Overbyte]

Or... have 2 people sit out every week. Rotating who plays each time.
So each person sits out once every 4 weeks.
Then you only have 6 people which is a great deal more manageable.

I agree with all the other posters, 8 people is just not feasible for a "good" game.
People are going to spend a lot more time sitting around than actually playing. Might as well split it up. Two 4-person games will run MUCH better than one 8-person game. Everyone will get much more play time and less bored.

[Sphinx]

1. Make sure every player has a "cheat sheet" explaining the five or so most common Tests their character makes. E.g., you usually roll [this many] dice, because Skill + Attribute + modifiers. Here are some situational modifiers that may affect the test. Here's the relevant information (and page references) you and the GM need to know.

2. As you work through the initiative order and call each player's action, remind the next player in the queue that they're "on deck;" it's time to decide what they're going to do, and have their dice counted and ready to roll. If that player still isn't ready when their turn comes up, they automatically delay their action until after the next player. Be brutally draconian about this the first few times, until players understand that you're not kidding.

3. Prepare Combat sheets ahead of time for each combat you expect to run. Include initiative charts for the first few Combat Turns, and roll the NPC initiative scores in advance. Write notes in the initiative chart about what action each NPC is likely to take, and dice numbers (but be prepared to change it on the fly in response to the players' tactics). Include NPC condition monitors somewhere on the page, along with their Defense dice pool (Reaction + Intuition) and Damage Resistance pool (Body + Armor).

4. Hold all rules arguments and debates until after the session. Encourage players to look up the rules, invite debate by e-mail between sessions, and promise some kind of compensation or reward (e.g., an extra point of Karma at the end of the run) if you get something wrong, but NEVER waste time hashing it out at the table during the game.

5. As much as possible, handle legwork and exposition by e-mail between sessions. Send players location descriptions, sourcebook references, visual cues (Google Image Search is your friend), maps, and so on, so they've already got a clear picture when they arrive. Time at the table should be for role-playing and rolling dice.

6. Do your homework. If the upcoming session includes some unusual circumstances for the group (deep-sea diving, environmental fatigue checks, airplane crashes, magical searches, etc.), make sure you understand the rules going in, and maybe give the key players a heads-up by e-mail that it might be worth their time to bone up on some obscure rule set that could affect their character's actions.

7. Any time there are multiple spirits or drones in play, share them around the table so one player doesn't hog the limelight with all the actions of his fleet. Let other players take turns interpreting the controller's instructions, and rolling dice for the spirit or drone's actions.

[Spooky]

All good advice. Pay attention to it. As for me, if I was going to run an 8 PC table (I run 6-7 in my store at the moment, so not a big stretch), I am going to change a few rules so that things go faster at the table. Example: Hacking/computer/e. warfare use marks to get things done. I turn the book system of marks into a single roll using the correct skill. That makes the matrix portion flow faster for everyone, and makes the decker/technomancer actually viable doing matrix stuff in combat. Example: Decker wants to get into Corp A's computer to open locks. Computer roll to locate the correct icon to hack, Hacking roll to get in, Hacking again to open locks in question. As I recall, the book system would take (maybe) 10 rolls to do the same thing. Key to doing this is making sure your players understand the variation, and don't argue the book rule with you. For characters in general, I really like using Herolab, because the dice pool totals and modifiers for various tasks are all on the printed sheet. If you're using written sheets, I have people put their dice pool total next to each skill name, so they can find it easily, and aren't recalculating every time they shoot a gun or cast a spell. Aside from that, the best I can do for you is say "good luck, chummer!"

[Gingivitis]

I have a number of House Rules (in my signature)  that make game play more streamlined.  Most of them are about not having to look in the Core Rule Book for reference as much.  But others streamline combat a lot:

1. Every Simple Action that Agents, Critters, Drones, IC, Spirits, and Sprites take are instead Complex Actions (basically, only one action per Action Phase).

2a. Grunts and Specialists never take Wound Modifiers to their Initiative Score.  Keeping all the Grunts on the same Action Phase makes things a lot easier.

2b. Grunts and Specialists do not take Wound Modifiers to other tests until they have filled at least half of their Condition Monitor with damage.   At this point they are considered "bloodied" and take a flat -2 to all tests (except damage resistance tests).  This eliminates the need to track several Grunts' -1, -2, or -3 mods.  Just mark them "bloodied" and move on.

3. Grunts and Specialists never voluntarily take Interrupt Actions (LTs and Prime Runners obviously do).  This would separate the Grunts' initiative, which is bad.

4. Grunts take either defense tests OR damage resistance tests but never both (LTs and Prime Runners obviously do).  This is the single most valuable House Rule for large combats.

Things that aren't in my House Rules but are concepts that help me a lot with 5+ players:

1. Simplify modifiers and hand wave a lot.  In my House Tables, generally modifiers are a +2 or a -2.  The more that you can avoid book-diving the better.

2. Try to avoid rolling Initiative as much as you can.  Just go around the table, or in an appropriate order, and resolve Actions.  Only roll Initiative when you absolutely have to.

3. If you think the House Rules make the Grunts too weak, remember that they get Group Edge and can burn Edge for automatic successes or to go first.  They don't have to conserve Edge because they will be dead in a few seconds.  If you think that the combat is going too easily, burn an Edge and surprise the players (Just make sure you don't single out the player you hate the most... Or do... I am not the boss of you).

4. Remember that lower Professional Rating encounters do not fight to the death.  They run away and disengage and give up all the time.  Don't drag out combat encounters.

The only other advice would be like everyone else's: Be prepared, know the rules or be prepared to adjudicate on the spot, don't dither, don't argue, don't delay, etc.

Good Luck!

[Mirrownis]

I only ever DM´d a large (with 11 players) group in Pathfinder/DnD, but I think it´s the same at baseline. I always tried to group my players into some kind of task force, for example "all the magic users" or  "the B&E guys" and encouraged them to work together. While one decker would just sit around and fiddle his thumbs, 2 or 3 of those would most likely discuss their game plan and present some pretty suprising solutions for whatever I throw at them. Additionally, they will most likely use teamwork tests or they all do the same thing, so they don´t take as much time as the same number of people working on their own.

[DeathofVirtue]

From my personal experience either gm'ing or off gm'ing a 16 man group every other week a few quick tips I can give you are:

1:  If at all possible try and split the players into two or three subgroups who share the same overall objectives but are seperate, for example my table has three seperate groups of runners, they often get contracted for the same job but each group might be responsible for a seperate part of it such as.  Alpha's job is to recon the area, maybe get a man on the inside or compromise security systems covertly before the main run.  Bravo will create a diversion 5 minutes before the run while team Charlie gets into position for the main run.  Charlie gets in and get's the paydirt bugs out and goes to ground.

You will need a somewhat experienced off gm for EACH group, so you arent causing a total  cluster f@>k when each groups members are doing something different at the same time.  This can take a little practise to get right but in my experience makes things far more organised and manageable and can even allow for conflict between the groups if thats your thing.

2.  KEEP THEM FOCUSED.  I can't stress this enough short periods of joking and ooc conversation can be fine in smaller groups, in larger games it will eat mission time like nothing you have ever seen before if you let it.  If one guy/girl is constantly interrupting the flow it's time to have a chat, now, not later.  Suggestion one helps here as the off gm's each have part of the workload.

3. Cheat sheets for all.  Make sure your players all have UPDATED quick reference sheets for any actions their characters are likely to make.  Any grey areas on rules should be decided on by the main gm BEFORE your first run, should an unexpected one come up don't be afraid to handwave or over-rule immediatley and discuss AFTER the game or it will eat time and break immersion.

4.  Have a plan in place should you run short of time.  Theres nothing worse than having to stop a run halfway through due to time constraints.  Prepare a way to end or continue your campaign to the next session should this happen.  "Your window is closed, they wiped the paydata.  The runs scrapped chummer."

5.  House rules and simplifying.  This one will take some practise and trial and error.  Where possible you want to simplify any troublesome rules or mechanics that will eat time or leave others idle for long periods, it will make things much smoother and easier.  Don't be afraid to make house rules to assist but talk to those they effect to make sure they are implemented fairly.

6. Space.  Make sure you have somwhere that has enough space for your group to be comfortable.  If using suggestion 1 try and make sure your groups are seated together but seperated from the others enough to make them distinct.  Position the main gm in a prominant position where they can adress all the groups comfortably and make sure the gm's are within earshot of eachother so they can converse about relevant game info such as - team Charlies fire elemental just went wild and it's headed straight to your group...

It's tricky and can take several runs to make everything work smoothly but ultimatley it's very rewarding if you can handle it.

[pariah3j]

@WernerHerzogZwei

   Curious how your group/sessions turned out ? Did you end up running separate groups or a one large one ?

[cantrip]

Some great advice guys! I saw eight players and immediately flinched - I've gotten slowed up in three player games.  It usually involves a game mechanic look-up or question, granted I play on roll20 - which is great, but it is easy for players to go grab a drink or run and do something when other players are acting and then they don't get back quite in time.
I would rather play two solid hours than an interrupted 4 hr stretch.

I'm getting ready to run at a convention for the first time and am debating how many players to limit the table to, so this is great stuff. I was thinking four or six, possibly four since I'm a rules light GM and new to a convention setting. Actually, now that Anarchy is out, I'm going to take a look at it if I have time.