NEWS

Disarming question

  • 8 Replies
  • 7845 Views

AJBuwalda

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 195
« on: <11-11-10/0433:44> »
Can disarm also be used against ranged weapons? Lets say I stand toe-to-toe with a guy and I want to remove his gun could I go for a disarm?
Greetings from the Netherlands, comrade!

Chaemera

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 797
  • I may be a mouse, but I have a chainsaw.
« Reply #1 on: <11-11-10/0606:17> »
This is the first time I've looked at it, and I already don't like the existing "Disarm" rules, assuming we're talking about the maneuver in Arsenal, pg. 159.

You can't actually disarm someone unless you first defend using Full Parry at a -4 DP modifier, and successfully parry the attack. At that point, their weapon is on the ground.

Since you need to stop the attack with parry, and parry is against melee attacks only, unless they're pistol-whipping you, doesn't look like you can use that to grab their gun.

This is why, instead of coming up with maneuvers, they ought to have done a better job pointing people to the following:

Quote from:  SR4A, pg. 161, Called Shots
When a shot is called, and pending the gamemaster's agreement, the player character has the choice to:

* Target an area not protected by armor. ...
* Target a vital area in order to increase damage. ...
* Knock something out of the target's grasp. The attacking character receives a -4 dice pool modifier on the attack. If the modified Damage Value of the attack exceeds the target's Strength, the target loses his grip on the object. The gamemaster determines whether or not the object is damaged and how far away it is knocked.
* The gamemaster may also allow other specific effects for called shots if he chooses. ...
Emphasis mine.

Using called shot, you don't wait for them, you don't worry about parrying, you can use a weapon (or not), you can perform it at range or not, and you don't care WHAT he's wielding. For that matter, under that last heading, for a -5 or -6, when unarmed, I might very well say "sure, you can grab his gun instead of knocking it away from him".
SR20A Limited Edition # 124
Obsidian Portal Profile: http://www.obsidianportal.com/profile/chaemera

AJBuwalda

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 195
« Reply #2 on: <11-11-10/0647:53> »
This is the first time I've looked at it, and I already don't like the existing "Disarm" rules, assuming we're talking about the maneuver in Arsenal, pg. 159.

You can't actually disarm someone unless you first defend using Full Parry at a -4 DP modifier, and successfully parry the attack. At that point, their weapon is on the ground.

Since you need to stop the attack with parry, and parry is against melee attacks only, unless they're pistol-whipping you, doesn't look like you can use that to grab their gun.

This is why, instead of coming up with maneuvers, they ought to have done a better job pointing people to the following:

Quote from:  SR4A, pg. 161, Called Shots
When a shot is called, and pending the gamemaster's agreement, the player character has the choice to:

* Target an area not protected by armor. ...
* Target a vital area in order to increase damage. ...
* Knock something out of the target's grasp. The attacking character receives a -4 dice pool modifier on the attack. If the modified Damage Value of the attack exceeds the target's Strength, the target loses his grip on the object. The gamemaster determines whether or not the object is damaged and how far away it is knocked.
* The gamemaster may also allow other specific effects for called shots if he chooses. ...
Emphasis mine.

Using called shot, you don't wait for them, you don't worry about parrying, you can use a weapon (or not), you can perform it at range or not, and you don't care WHAT he's wielding. For that matter, under that last heading, for a -5 or -6, when unarmed, I might very well say "sure, you can grab his gun instead of knocking it away from him".
Now, that would work excellently! I'm incorporating muay thai into my character. He's pretty much a face/thief, so when he doesn't do a good job at conning people and he is without weapons, he can still have a chance.
Greetings from the Netherlands, comrade!

FastJack

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6374
  • Kids these days...
« Reply #3 on: <11-11-10/0920:12> »
I think the Disarm maneuver was written up to give another method of disarming his opponent. Called Shots work in most cases, but the mundane with a 6 Str and a black-belt in Aikido will most likely not succeed on a Called Shot to disarm the baseball from the Troll Sammy with a strength of 15. Instead, the Disarm maneuver allows the same black belt to full parry (Unarmed + Unarmed + Reaction -4) the next attack from the Sammy and just need to get more hits.

It's all about options. The Called Shot is the Christian Bale going up to the thug in Dark Knight, grabbing the shotgun and disarming him. Disarm is Jet Li parrying sword thrust so that he grabs the opponent's hand and forces him to let go of the sword.

Chaemera

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 797
  • I may be a mouse, but I have a chainsaw.
« Reply #4 on: <11-11-10/1625:36> »
Fair enough, I just have a bad history with GM's who, once there is an "official" maneuver (power, feat, whatever the name for the given system is), they disallow creative solutions using the broad, general rules.

So I like keeping to broad, general rules whenever possible and having specific rules for the few things that should violate them.
SR20A Limited Edition # 124
Obsidian Portal Profile: http://www.obsidianportal.com/profile/chaemera

AJBuwalda

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 195
« Reply #5 on: <11-11-10/1748:48> »
Fair enough, I just have a bad history with GM's who, once there is an "official" maneuver (power, feat, whatever the name for the given system is), they disallow creative solutions using the broad, general rules.

So I like keeping to broad, general rules whenever possible and having specific rules for the few things that should violate them.
And here I was thinking that RPGing was about thinking outside the box ;)
Greetings from the Netherlands, comrade!

Chaemera

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 797
  • I may be a mouse, but I have a chainsaw.
« Reply #6 on: <11-11-10/1758:03> »
The all-mighty rules must be followed! There are to be no deviations!

. . . Or, so said the GM's I no longer play with.
SR20A Limited Edition # 124
Obsidian Portal Profile: http://www.obsidianportal.com/profile/chaemera

AJBuwalda

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 195
« Reply #7 on: <11-11-10/1805:33> »
The all-mighty rules must be followed! There are to be no deviations!

. . . Or, so said the GM's I no longer play with.
I dabbled in the GMing side of things. With a group of gunbunnies running Dark Heresy; they dropped like flies and than mended their ways. You cannot kick in the door of Chaos Cult hide out, face 50 of them and a Daemon and expect to survive; no matter how lovely that armageddon pattern autogun is. I forced them to be more original; I like bending the rules for good RP.
Greetings from the Netherlands, comrade!

Chaemera

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 797
  • I may be a mouse, but I have a chainsaw.
« Reply #8 on: <11-11-10/1940:47> »
To quote "Gamers: Dorkness Rising" (if you haven't seen this movie by Dead Gentlemen, please do):
"Story trumps rules."

However, this being a rules forum, expect me to come down on the side of the rules unless we're specifically discussing how to house rule around a problem. :P

I actually ended up GMing as a result of said narrow-focused, rules-lawyering GMs. There was, as they say, a player revolt.
SR20A Limited Edition # 124
Obsidian Portal Profile: http://www.obsidianportal.com/profile/chaemera