[Mäx]

I agree it is a physical spell in that it is resisted by body

You misunderstand me, yes ofcource its a physical spell as indirect combat spells can't be mana spells.
What i meant was that to have an elemental effect the spell must be a physical spell that does physical damage, says so right there in the spell design table.

[Qemuel]

I don't see that.

On p. 162 SM

Indirect Combat spells must always be physical, as they create a damaging physical effect to use against the target.  Indirect Combat spells are treated as ranged attacks, so physical armor applies.

A physical effect is not the same as physical damage, imho.  What that implies is that it cannot be a purely mental/spiritual effect.

[The_Gun_Nut]

Sorry, Qemuel, but that is what it means.  When the spell description says it does physical damage, then that means it uses the physical damage track.

[Qemuel]

Sorry, Qemuel, but that is what it means.  When the spell description says it does physical damage, then that means it uses the physical damage track.

I don't disagree with that.  I wholeheartedly agree with you, which is why I am treating Lightning Bolt as Physical rather than Stun.

I do disagree that a physical effect means physical damage.

Edit:  For example, Sound elemental damage (p. 165 SM) is a physical effect that causes Stun damage, not Physical damage.  I was suggesting that the text of Indirect Combat spells is saying that the effect is physical, but that it doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be physical damage.  A physical effect can certainly cause stun damage.  Simple example:  an unarmed attack is a physical attack that causes stun damage.

[Qemuel]

Ah, I see now where you are getting the information, Mäx.  I was looking at the description rather than the table on p. 163 SM.

In the table, it specifically states

Elemental effect (must be Physical spell with Physical damage) +2

Still, that makes me wonder if you can use the elemental effect (+2)
then apply the Stun modifier (-1)

kinda wonky, but seems in the realm of possibility.  I also find it weird that some of the elemental effects (starting on p. 164 SM, sidebars) would specifically state they cause physical damage if there wasn't an option for them to cause stun damage.

Edit:  while others clearly state that they cause Stun damage.

[Walks Through Walls]

There are attacks that are resisted with body and do stun damage however. Like my earlier example of hitting with your hands (assuming you don't have a mod or ability that causes you to do physical damage) I believe this is the game mechanic that several of the elemental damage effects fall into. Heck for that matter it is where a taser falls also.

It looks like this is one of those examples where the rules have contradicted themselves on how the damage should be treated depending on where you look for the information.

[The_Gun_Nut]

Ok, having looked in the book, the damage listed is P, as in Physical damage.  Not Stun damage.

[Qemuel]

As a side note, I find it interesting that the Thunderbird, rather than having the Elemental Attack (Electricity) power, has Innate Spell (Lightning Bolt).
This certainly makes it clear that there is a difference between the two (Physical vs. Stun, imho)

[The_Gun_Nut]

Alright, it does purely physical damage, but has the elemental effect of electricity.  That means it also has the incapacitating effect as well, right?

Ouch.

[Qemuel]

Alright, it does purely physical damage, but has the elemental effect of electricity.  That means it also has the incapacitating effect as well, right?

Ouch.

Truly!

Secondary elemental effects are fun for magicians... not so fun on the receiving end.