[Qemuel]

Short question:

Does Lightning Bolt/Ball Lightning cause Physical damage or Stun damage?


Long question:

SR4A, p. 163, Electricity Damage.  This section implies that all electrical damage is treated as Stun damage.  On page 164, it clearly states, "Electrical damage is treated as Stun damage and resisted..."
SR4A, p. 204, Damage Value.  "Each spell description notes whether damage is Stun (S) or Physical (P)."
SR4A, p. 205, Lightning Bolt (Indirect, Elemental).  The spells are clearly listed as causing Physical (P) damage.


I'm inclined to believe that the spell form causes physical damage, but I'm open to interpretation.


Next question.  How does this relate to critter powers such as Elemental Attack and Energy Aura with electricity?

[voydangel]

We run that electricity damage is always stun damage at my table. But you're right, it's an interesting oversight on the Lightning bolt/ball spell. I would further note that critter powers and auras/attacks would be stun also if it were electrical in nature, but I'm not sure if there's any RAW to back me up besides what you already said.

On page 164, it clearly states, "Electrical damage is treated as Stun damage and resisted..."

Plus, I wouldn't personally consider that implied. That's pretty explicit.

[Qemuel]

True, that is explicitly stated.  I used implied because it also explicitly states that the Lightning Bolt spell causes Physical damage.
 

[FastJack]

When talking about electrical damage, it is stun damage for attacks like Stun sticks and naturally occurring electrical damage.

But spells are their own beast.

[voydangel]

Good point. Magic breaks all the rules of logic and decency...

I guess the specific spell would override the general rule, as it were.

[Qemuel]

That's how we have been playing it...  it's magic, so it's different and therefore it's physical.  I don't see it breaking the game in any special way.  It just struck me as odd that those two spells would be the only electrical attacks that were different than all the others.

However that could open up electrical Critter Powers (elemental attack/energy aura) to causing Physical damage as well. (it's magical!).  However, I think we'll be keeping those as Stun to avoid opening any more cans of worms with my players. 

[Lansdren]

There is also a difference between a tazer which is supposed to be non deadly and a mage trying to fry someone with lightning.

Even low force a lightning bolt is supposed ot be damaging

[Qemuel]

I agree.

At the same time, I don't see a critter power being akin to a taser...  I see it very similar to the mage's lightning bolt.  However, RAW, it is stun damage.  And I'm fine with that.  in fact I would be fine with Lightning Bolt being stun damage, but since RAW it is physical and that's the way my players want it, I'm okay with that too.  It just found it odd to be the only exception that I have found.

[Juxtamon]

Vexin' description.  Maybe they were stuck in combat-spell-description-typing mode, since - no, there's the Punch/Clout/Blast stuff which is Physical with Stun damage, too...

Did they intend physical damage, but with all the side effects of electricity (and double the calories!), and just foofed over their in-spell description?

Has anyone tried some physical damage lightning in-game?  How does it seem to balance with the other elemental damage types (that stun-staggered thing for electricity seems reeeeeeally useful in a firefight.)?

   The balance of it seems to be what might tip the balance of judgement.  Judgement! (tm)  The rules of decency - uh, I mean *logic* - require upholding!
         _{Well decency might require some bolstering too, but no hurry on my part...}

[Walks Through Walls]

Several of the elemental effects have some pretty nasty side bonuses. Blast for knockdown ( a prone target is an easy to hit target), sound gives your opponent both nausea and deafness, and smoke limits vision. Both sound and smoke ignore most armor unless it is modified with a dampener or gas mask system. So the possibility of electric with both physical damage and the secondary effect isn't that different.

Though smoke and sound both do stun damage instead of physical the effects and ignoring armor is pretty nice. Especially against someone whose willpower is higher than their body or anyone who relies only on their armor for protection.

[Mäx]

Actually from my reading of the spell desing rules, all indirected spells with an elemental effect do physical damage, no matter what the normal damage type for that element is.

[Walks Through Walls]

Actually Max if you read the sidebars in Street magic it specifically says that several of them do stun damage. Both sound and light coming to mind right off hand

[Mäx]

Actually Max if you read the sidebars in Street magic it specifically says that several of them do stun damage. Both sound and light coming to mind right off hand

But the damage type of a combat spell is part of the design process and only physical damage indirect spells can have an elemental effect.
Also this is consistant with the electricity spells from core doing physical damage.

[Walks Through Walls]

I agree it is a physical spell in that it is resisted by body, but they do stun damage just like when you punch someone it is a physical attack resisted by body but it does stun damage. Unless of course you have bone lacing or something that makes your punches do physical damage. When I first read your post I was thinking you meant that it was always on the physical track

[The_Gun_Nut]

There are two types of damage:  Physical and stun.  Thus the two damage tracks.

You can't have an ability or weapon do physical damage but get recorded on the stun track (armor rules notwithstanding).  When they say it does "physical" damage, they mean it is recorded on the physical track.